v8bertha Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Anybody out there who runs tubes in tubeless tyres will know what a pain it can be. In my case the reason for now investigating alternatives is that one of our tubes decided to pop in the roadworks on the M3 on Friday afternoon. The wombles had to block the inside lane for us to be able to change the wheel as there was no hard shoulder!! All good fun, eh! I've always run tubes in my BFT MT's because the rims are tubed rims... other than that I have no other reasoning. So.... If a wheel rim is specified as being a "Tubed rim", what is the difference between it and its tubeless cousin? In particular I'm interested in the 1-ton rims which have a riveted centre section rather than welded. Is it simply a case that the rivets can't be trusted to make an airtight seal or are the bead seats different in some way, or is there something altogether more sinister? The easy option would be to get some tubeless rims but unfortunately Land Rover don't make a "Tubeless" 1-ton rim, and as this is for the Camel I'd like to try to keep the original look if possible. So... anybody out there know the differences or if there is any reason why I can't run my tubeless tyres on tubed rims without tubes Cheers all Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 The difference is in the beads; there is a rolled bead in the rim where the tyre bead fits over with a light press fit to make the tyre seal to the rim. So you wouldn't be able to pump up the tyre on a tube rim. Still, In my opinion, the best setup is to have tubes combined with a tubeless rim (unless you have beadlocks), to make sure the tyre stays on with low pressures. I have run mud terrrains for 10 years with tubes, so it shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure the stickers inside the tyre are removed and you run Michelin tubes (or good quality ones at least). Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I've always run tubes in my BFT MT's because the rims are tubed rims... I don't & never had any problems with the tyres not holding air or parting from the rim. So you wouldn't be able to pump up the tyre on a tube rim. works on mine everytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 Cheers for the replies chaps Daan, interesting what you say about Michelin tubes. Somebody said this to me over the weekend. To hear it from an independant source is encouraging. Western... also interesting what you say about not running tubes at all... I presume if you can get the air in quick enough then inflating shouldn't be a problem. I think I may give it a try before splashing out on 'spensive tubes! Cheers Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 My Range Rover had tubed rims. I could only get tubeless tyres so like you I ran with atube. OH !! the pain. Punctures nearly every week. Then I was told to run Michelin tubes. The punctures didn't go away but one a year was bearable. mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Cheers for the replies chaps Daan, interesting what you say about Michelin tubes. Somebody said this to me over the weekend. To hear it from an independant source is encouraging. Western... also interesting what you say about not running tubes at all... I presume if you can get the air in quick enough then inflating shouldn't be a problem. I think I may give it a try before splashing out on 'spensive tubes! Cheers Dan the tyre place I use hasn't had any problem making the tyres sit on the rim & seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landkeeper Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 just out of interest, i went and had a look this afternoon as i was reseating some bfgs a friend that were leaking round the rim , and looking at modular rims /land rover alloys and old series riveted rims i honestly cant see that much of a difference on the bead seat so i stuck a tubeless tyre on an old riveted rim and it seated fine, mind you that was with a compressor might be different with a foot pump it sealed and wasn't leaking i'll see what its like in the morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 For God's sake - no, for your sake and the lives of other road users - DO NOT USE A TUBE TYPE RIM WITHOUT A TUBE. If you do not know what you are doing, or if you do not understand, get someone who does. Please. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p38rr Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Using tubeless tyres without tubes on tubeless rims is DANGEROUS and will fail an MOT providing the MOT tester notices it. There is nothing to hold the tyre against the rim and if a tyre depot if fitting them in this way then basically they shouldn`t be. Never fit a tyre to a tubeless rim without a tube otherwise a disaster could be on the horizon and god forbid, Mr insurance could be invalid. Believe me, I do know what im talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p38rr Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Sorry GBMUB, you got in before me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Here is a tubeless wheel, OK, it is from a Vespa, but this is what you are looking for on a tubeless Landrover rim, the 'safety bead'. A tube type rim will not have this and as you can imagine, without it the tyre can slip off the shoulder, dump the pressure, the tyre comes off the rim - and all that can happen at 70mph+. ...or in the M3 roadworks. More then one lane closed then I suggest. [/stern voice] Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Sorry GBMUB, you got in before me!!! You make some good points. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p38rr Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I think all tube type wheels are marked TUBE TYPE only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 i stuck a tubeless tyre on an old riveted rim and it seated fine, mind you that was with a compressor might be different with a foot pump it sealed and wasn't leaking i'll see what its like in the morning Any rim with rivets will be tube type as the rivets provide a place for leaks. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 I think all tube type wheels are marked TUBE TYPE only Unless they were made before tubeless ones were common. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=26544 also has anyone got a photo of the 2 versions of the XD/Wolf heavy duty wheels showing the wheel section between the bead faces, as I've never actually seen what the difference is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 has anyone got a photo of the 2 versions of the XD/Wolf heavy duty wheels showing the wheel section between the bead faces, as I've never actually seen what the difference is. Pretty much the two ribs as shown in my picture a few posts ago Ralph. Just imagine them on a rusty LR rim. You still get the 'well' in the centre to allow for fitting the tyre though. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Ah, thanks Chris, just Googled ANR5593 which is a XD rim part number & found this thread by Gromit posted 2 years ago http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=17756 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 That shows the difference perfectly, right down to the rust. Good man that Grommit, whatever people say. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Using tubeless tyres without tubes on tubeless rims is DANGEROUS and will fail an MOT providing the MOT tester notices it. There is nothing to hold the tyre against the rim and if a tyre depot if fitting them in this way then basically they shouldn`t be. Never fit a tyre to a tubeless rim without a tube otherwise a disaster could be on the horizon and god forbid, Mr insurance could be invalid. Believe me, I do know what im talking about. You may want to read that first sentence again slowly. If you're right, every new vehicle coming off the production line will be a MOT failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSheds Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I think that there may be another difference to those noted above? A tubed rim may have a valve-hole designed to be friendly to tubes - possibly chamfered, whereas a tubeless rim will have a hole designed to allow the valve to seat and seal which may or may not be friendly to tube valves. I remember being warned years ago (when tubeless first came out ) NOT to tube a tubeless rim/tyre since it could wear away the valve base. Things may have changed in this area, but I still think it is possibly dodgy. From personal experience I would just like to add to this that if you fit a tube - to ANY tyre/rim combination, you are removing an enormous advantage of properly fitted tubeless tyres: you are increasing your chances of a 'blow-out' as opposed to a 'progressive deflation' in the event of a puncture. Having experienced both at motorway speeds, I know that I will never fit a tube to anything other than a bycycle again! (where is the little brown-trousers emoticon when you want one?) Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roverdrive Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Paul You beat me to it there, but it is early here, and I am only half way down the first brew of the day. (Tea not Special) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p38rr Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Somebody has ben messing around with my post!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Nope just highlighted what you typed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluespanner Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 P38RR, you have your wires crossed, you meant: Using tubeless tyres without tubes on TUBE TYPE rims is DANGEROUS and will fail an MOT providing the MOT tester notices it. There is nothing to hold the tyre against the rim and if a tyre depot if fitting them in this way then basically they shouldn`t be. Never fit a tyre to a TUBE TYPE rim without a tube otherwise a disaster could be on the horizon and god forbid, Mr insurance could be invalid. Believe me, I do know what im talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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