CwazyWabbit Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 OK, it will take a while to make a cct diagram up from those pictures. For now if you want to have your screen working instead of having the OP switch connected to pin 2 just make pin 2 a permanent earth and don't use the OP switch, obviously this means the screen will work when ignition is on but engine isn't running. I'll sort a diagram this evening hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I'll leave the timer out for now,all the connections are fully insulated spade terminal fittings,so no bare wire ends can tough anything a cloth for wiping the screen dry will do until we can get this sorted. your help is much appreciated, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 OK then, have found the datasheet for that timer chip on the PCB so that should make things easier. I'll work through it this evening. Better get on with some chores now...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 good find, OK best I don't get you in trouble with Mrs CW, or she might not be reading the riot act to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Barry this is the internals of my Britax switch momentary type with warning light which has seperate connections & fits in switch body. hand written notes about terminal 5 & 8 refer to the LR timer unit not the GLR10 timer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 The factory fitted relay is 40A It's not clear from Microcat for the TD5 Defender, as it doesn't specify which relay does what. But, for the Puma Defender, Microcat specifies each relay's function and, for the heated windscreen, the relay is - YWB500060 This is the same relay used for several other functions and, if you look it up, it's specified as a 40A relay - http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/17158/99/YWB500060-40AMP-RELAY.html http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/YWB500060G.cfm As you have signs of burning at the relay socket, it will need changing anyway, so you might as well change it for a 70A relay and socket, with dual feeds to suit your heated screen. . Thanks Paul. I'll fire off an order for some goodies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 would it work without adding another set of connections/relay ? maybe like this glr10 terminals 1 switch 2 earth 3 ign feed 4 oil pressure switch 5 to 70 amp relay/screen on the GLR10 diagram I'm not sure what the +AC means [accessory maybe] Have had a look at the circuit in the relay and for this to work you will also need a pull up resistor between pin 4 and an ignition live (not sure of value or rating yet). Pin 4 powers the internal circuitry in the relay. Pin 3 and pin 5 are the switched side of the relay and are connected to nothing else inside the relay. Pin 1 is the switch input and requires a positive pulse to start the timer, a second pulse stops the timer again so you don't have to wait for the timer to complete. Pin 2 is the earth connection of the relay. Your switch will need pin 1 connected +12v and pin 5 connected to pin 1 of the relay. The warning light in the switch will need connecting between earth and pin 5 of the relay. The alternative to a pull up resistor is to fit a relay with normally closed contacts to disconnect the ignition live from pin 4. The relay would simply have one side of the coil connected to ignition live and the other side to the oil pressure switch, the switched side of the relay would be connected between pin 4 of the timer relay and ignition live. EDIT: After a little more thought using a pull up resistor would be problematic so use the extra relay method. EDIT2: It would be problematic as the pull up resistor would be in series with the timer relays coil resulting in it not getting the full 12v, I don't know what the minimum voltage to activate the internal relay coil is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Thanks for taxing your brain so if I understand the above correctly. I should end up with timer 1 output from momentary switch to energise timer & 70 amp relay 2 to earth 3 output to 70 amp relay to power the screen heating 4 ign feed 12v --- could I use the feed from oil pressure switch instead of a ign controlled seperate feed ?? 5 to operate switch warning light when screen 70 amp relay is energised & screen heating on I thought this was going to be a easy fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 As I understand it Ralph the oil pressure switch is earth when engine isn't running and open circuit when oil is at pressure (there is only one wire from it on the microcat wiring diagram I had). If that's wrong then let me know. I'll draw a diagram similar to your original one for you once you confirm the oil pressure switch operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I didn't bother using the oil pressure switch as the earth. Well you see I reckoned that I could remember to switch off the 'screen if the engine wasn't running. As it happens with the timer relays I've got fitted, if the ign is switched off then so are the 'screen timer relays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 As I understand it Ralph the oil pressure switch is earth when engine isn't running and open circuit when oil is at pressure (there is only one wire from it on the microcat wiring diagram I had). If that's wrong then let me know. I'll draw a diagram similar to your original one for you once you confirm the oil pressure switch operation. Barry Yes only one [brown/white trace] wire on oil pressure switch, so might just leave that out of the circuit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotts90 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Which type of 70a relay are you using for a 3 tab screen? I've had a look about and can find 4pin ones but the only 5 pin 70a ones I've found are changeover relays. Did you just splice/piggy back for the second feed off the 4pin one? I have a spare td5 loom and was going to use this to rob another 40a relay/mount and give each element it's own relayed supply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 mines a 4 pin, this one from Autosparks http://www.autosparks.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=2018 bought a bases for it too. http://www.autosparks.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=2017 my hand drawn wiring diagram is in one of my previous replies, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northmalvern Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Ive used a GLR10 with the output split to two 30A 4 pin relays, one for each side of the screen. A momentary push button switch in the aux switch panel keeps it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMc Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Which type of 70a relay are you using for a 3 tab screen? I've had a look about and can find 4pin ones but the only 5 pin 70a ones I've found are changeover relays. Did you just splice/piggy back for the second feed off the 4pin one? I have a spare td5 loom and was going to use this to rob another 40a relay/mount and give each element it's own relayed supply On a 4 x terminal 70A relay, you would run the 2 x live wires from the same terminal. The large (9.5mm) terminals can usually be supplied to suit 4.0 - 6.0mm2, or 6.0 - 10.0mm2 cable. As you're using 2 x 4.0mm2 cables, you would need the larger terminals. Using 2 x 40A relays (one per element) would also work. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Thanks for taxing your brain so if I understand the above correctly. I should end up with timer 1 output from momentary switch to energise timer & 70 amp relay 2 to earth 3 output to 70 amp relay to power the screen heating 4 ign feed 12v --- could I use the feed from oil pressure switch instead of a ign controlled seperate feed ?? 5 to operate switch warning light when screen 70 amp relay is energised & screen heating on I thought this was going to be a easy fit Barry Yes only one [brown/white trace] wire on oil pressure switch, so might just leave that out of the circuit Sorry I thought I'd replied to this Ralph. Without using the oil pressure the wiring of the timer relay is simply 1 output of momentary switch (pin 5 of switch, pin 1 of switch to +12v) 2 earth 3 ign feed 4 ign feed 5 connect to 70A relay input and switch warning light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Brilliant Thanks loads Barry, info saved & printed. I'll fit the GLR10 tomorrow when home from work & let you know the result, the oil pressure wire for the old timer can stay in place, it'll be safely tucked out of the way & not able to touch anything else.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 to chuffing cold outside to attempt fitting the GLR10 timer, going to leave it until the weekend & more daylight, just had to refit the downpipe to turbo outlet as it decided to seperate just before I turned into my drive, got to warm me up again now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 New GLR10 relay fitted. 'screen works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 On 21/01/2014 at 9:41 PM, CwazyWabbit said: Without using the oil pressure the wiring of the timer relay is simply 1 output of momentary switch (pin 5 of switch, pin 1 of switch to +12v) 2 earth 3 ign feed 4 ign feed 5 connect to 70A relay input and switch warning light using the connection detailed above, new GLR10 timer now fitted & working BIG Thanks to all for your great info. my revised wiring diagram included for use by anyone who wants to use it for their vehicle heated screen wiring. Note wire colour codes are my choice. forgot to add it to the diagram, note there is a 30amp fuse at the power connection at battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 had the heated screen on this morning, all working fine & timer switched off after 10 mins, so happy bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Out of curiosity do you still have the broken relay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I've got 2 dead LR heated screen relays, PRC6796, Do you want them to play with or just photo's of the internal circuit items ??? no good to me now, so happy to throw them over to Surrey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I'd quite like a play with them to see how they work please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 OK, PM your address & I'll post them on Saturday morning, no use to me, so you can have them for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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