Intercooler Replacement

[santalars]

I have discovered a substantial leak in my intercooler (defender 90 300tdi)

Managed to fix it temporarily by squeezing the surrounding material which worked surprisingly ok.

Together with new injectors and pump (including a slight tweek) the power came back.

However, I need a new intercooler and I have two options:

• 
  

original used replacement (15-20£) at ebay

• 
  

uprated replacement (due to the winch arrangement full size not possible) approx £350

I saw that I can buy them from Devon 4x4 and Matt Salvage. What are your experiences with them?

Any alternatives?? What do you think?

[white90]

Standard without a doubt or you'll waste ££

[western]

or save more & get the existing intercooler welded up correctly.

[nicksmelly]

http://www.lasertools.co.uk/item.aspx?item=4197

[gruntus]

Interesting reply Tony,

I had always thought the larger intercooler and fuel pump tweak was the way to go.

What experiences have you had/seen to keep the original setup instead?

Please read the above as a genuine question and not a dig!

The only reason I ask is I have to decide soon on what way I will go with my project.

I have 200TDi lump going into the original 2.5TD and hence have a full width radiator to hand.

I was going to fit this with a full width intercooler but now may go with a 200TDi combined turbo/radiator (read as a lot cheaper).

Cheers

G

[Happyoldgit]

Defender question moved to the Defender Forum.

[reb78]

Interesting reply Tony,

I had always thought the larger intercooler and fuel pump tweak was the way to go.

What experiences have you had/seen to keep the original setup instead?

Please read the above as a genuine question and not a dig!

G

Likewise. I had also thought that an uprated intercooler was the way to go and am enquiring about an uprated standard size one with Allisport and Brunel Performance at the moment. I just think the defender needs a little more poke to push it with the overdrive engaged, but dont want to tweak fuel and boost without increasing the cooling of the input air first.

[santalars]

Thanks so far.

Very interesting. I would have thought that there are all hands up for uprated intercoolers.

It looks now as the additional costs do not justify the benefit.

In my case the Defender makes many miles on the road as daily transport with much less time spend off road and it looks as the more reasonable approach is to go with the standard (original)intercooler.

Steve,

I thought that is a general 300tdi topic and have therefore posted it in "international".

[white90]

Well unless you are fitting the full width variant (the First poster said not enough room)

you are left with a slightly bigger volume standard width one.

I purchased one it was fitted but the performance improvement was no where near worth the ££

the 90 used an entire tank of fuel to drive back home(150miles)

the performance gains were made from the supplier turning the injection pump up to max rather than the intercooler.

I turned the pump back between standard and where it had been put to lessen the huge amounts of black smoke and excessive EGT temps being seen.

then the performance gains where far less noticeable.

I have also driven full width intercooler 300TDIs these seem to be better without the High EGT figures.

So to sum up if you can't fit a Full width I'd save your ££ and tweek the fuel pump yourself for free.

[maxtherotti]

i have the brunell one in my disco (standard end caps with a high flow core fitted) and tbh im not sure its worth the money as the improvenment isnt too great (over stock) but as it came fitted to the car i dont mind lol

so would defo agree with white90 100% on this

rob

[reb78]

Well, i dont know what to do now!! I was leaning towards an uprated standard size intercooler before i read this. They are cheaper and i was worried about impairing the cooling on the rad with a full size intercooler. Brunel seem to recommend the smaller ones if you are not after increased power for off roading (i.e at lower road speeds). Brunel say that they dont sell the full size ones to people that might go on expeditions to hotter areas as the full size ones may impair cooling. Allisport say that bigger is better and the bigger teh intercooler, the more the cooling. I know the full size version will cool the input air but i would have tought that when using the power you could get with the larger intercooler you will still need to make sure your rad is cooling fully.

[white90]

We also had a Discovery 300TDI a tweak of the pump gave as good results

with the standard intercooler.

Totally personal choice but in hindsight I would not buy again unless it was full width

these will not fit my 90 though.

[santalars]

Again, many thanks for the interesting and helpfull advise here. I have ordered a used standard one.

What would interest me to understand this further is, how much hotter than the surrounding air temperature is the compressed air entering the intercooler and what is the temperature loss after passing through the intercooler?

Am I right in thinking that we all have at least 15 BHP more at -5 degrees in the winter than at + 25 in the summer???

[Aragorn]

I think you'd be surprised at just how hot things get in there....

Air coming out of the turbo at full load/boost could easily be over 60-70c, higher if you've got the boost wound up.

The standard cooler certainly wont be able to get that airflow back down to anywhere near ambient temperature.

Depends what you want from it though. If your wanting to tweak the pump to the max, then you need more boost, and that means you really should be looking at a larger cooler. If its just a mild performance boost you want however, then you'll most likely be fine with a stock cooler.

[reb78]

Is it possible to give an indication of mild? i.e. degrees turn on the fuel cone and psi boost increase. I just want a little more when the overdrive is engaged. The rest of the system/engine is in good condition but i was waiting to do this until i got a more efficient intercooler. It seems that i might not need to now! I will start by giving the existing intercooler a good clean with some solvent on the inside and a gentle pressure wash on the outside (not hard enough to damage the fins).

[gruntus]

Thanks Tony (and all for your responses, this thread hasnt been hijacked has it?)

I notice that the full width intercoolers are fiercely expensive, I intended to fit a big intercooler, run the engine in on my project and be happy with the project for 6 months before fitting an EGT and getting the pump tweaked.

I may now source a standard combination intercooler and radiator then add a larger intercooler at a later date (spread the cost so to speak ).

As an aside I have heard a few people have fitted intercoolers from various vehicles from the scrappies, anyone done such work?

Also what are the TD5 intercoolers like? They occasionaly come up on ebay and a great deal less expensive.

Now for a really stupid left field question! Has anyone ever used a radiator (empty of water of course ) as an intercooler? The priciples must be similar and hose size may be diferent but it is feasable?

Cheers

G

[cieranc]

I notice that the full width intercoolers are fiercely expensive,

Custom, straight fit types are, you're paying for the convenience of it being a straight fit in.

Generic, one-size-fits-none types are actually quite cheap, but you've more work to do to fit them.

Also what are the TD5 intercoolers like? They occasionaly come up on ebay and a great deal less expensive.

But they have pipework on opposite ends, you'd have to run one pipe from the intercooler offside outlet to the nearside inlet manifold. More pipework means more pressure drop, more room for the charge air to warm up again and a general drop in intercooler performance.

Now for a really stupid left field question! Has anyone ever used a radiator (empty of water of course ) as an intercooler? The priciples must be similar and hose size may be diferent but it is feasable?

Not really, the channels in a radiator are much narrower than those of an intercooler. It would mean a considerable restriction to airflow.

My whole intercooler install has so far added up to just under £200. Generic ebay twin-pass intercooler, aircon front panel, original intercooler hoses, everything else under the bonnet original. Left to do is paint front grill panel and fit front grill.

[gruntus]

Thanks for the info cieranc,

All that for £200 sounds more like it!

Do you have more info on what you did, where you sourced your intercooler etc?

I should be able to get the ally refabricated ok at a reasonable cost (I havent asked yet though! )

More importantly do you have more piccies!

thanks for the advice.

Cheers

G

[cieranc]

This project's nearly finished (it's all up and running, just got the cosmetics to finish) I'll do a full write up soon and post it up here.

[gasket]

ps. bin the viscous and fit an electric (from a breakers and get a thermostat from RS components) fan. This will give you more room to fit your rad and intercooler whichever way you chose to swing.