LT230 Transfer Box rebuild (part 1)

[dantd5]

Enclosed an image of my Landy Gearbox Leak Nappy MK I (part number LGLNMKI) ... as fitted since September, needs replacement every 600 Miles before flooding.....

It's a temporary fix to stop EP spilling on the street.

Cheers

Marco

I do like this solution by Marco. I have really marked the neighbourhood. A thing which many of the mothers around think isn't pleasant at all!!

[Marco]

I agree with you Nick but I am putting primary gears and bearings and the shim that is in the box is too thick so that when you torque it down the bearings are locked solid. So a I need the next size down or so.

I've spend some time on re-asembling the box today and figured out your problem might be caused by the rear bearing outer shell being tapped to far inwards. I started off with fitting that bearing outer shell on the same level / flat to the surface to the main case. But by doing so the rear output shaft housing fill not fit proberly as it does have a small ridge which should fit inside the main case with same diameter as the bearing outer shell. So I did tap it inwards 1-2 mm I guess, just enough to make the casing parts fit properly. So if you tap it in to far I presume the shaft will be locked solid if you are using the original shim and gasket thickness.

Cheers

Marco

[Marco]

Yesterday I've finally swapped transfer boxes, the old unit out and my own recon in. Short test drive no problems, later today I will do a 200km drive.

Below close up picture of the Ashcroft box with badly leaking intermediate shaft.

Time will tell if my own recondition job will last. In the end I did not use any special tools as I did not have. I've used common sense... all shafts do turn with a little resistance, no play when rocking shafts.

Next job is taking apart the GKN overdrive and the Ashcroft box for inspection. I will probably try to get that one sleeved with a proper circular hole for the intermediate shaft. Depending on condition of the bearings I might change those but they should be still OK with only 28.000 miles.

Cheers

Marco

[Marco]

By now I've been doing 600km with the DIY reconditioned box, no leaks but a little bit more noise @100+ km/h compared to the previous LT230. I presume it's the cross drilled input gear which did not belong to the rest of this box.

Later next week I will change the EP oil and take off the bottom plate for inspection.

Cheers

Marco

[rick]

Just found this one on the web, it's in German. The interesting bit the steel sleeve for the intermediate shaft.... the main oil leak problem on my reconditioned Ashcroft box...

http://www.rainer4x4.de/vtgrev.htm

Cheers

Marco

As Martin said, bushing the intermediate shaft bore is a pretty common mod here (Australia) as the bore often elongates in the aluminium housing, creating the leak in the first place. Just replacing the O ring is a temporary fix.

[Marco]

Update on this project... my own rebuild job is still doing fine @6000+ km no oil leaks but a bit of a whine @100-120 km/h, probably caused by the input gear and intermediate gear alignment (see my other post).

But the good news arrived today Ashcroft has been so kind to supply me with a sleeved LT230 casing free of charge , I've paid for the shipping and a discounted master rebuild kit. Thanks!

See picture of my new casing:

Cheers

Marco

[reb78]

Marco, is that insert ok? It looks cracked when i enlarged the photo! Hope its just a poor image!

[Marco]

Marco, is that insert ok? It looks cracked when i enlarged the photo! Hope its just a poor image!

No it's fine, no cracks!

Next update will be swapping the parts to this casing... new bearings supplied in kit are all funny ones made in Spain and Japan but guess they are of OEM quality or better.

[reb78]

No it's fine, no cracks!

Next update will be swapping the parts to this casing... new bearings supplied in kit are all funny ones made in Spain and Japan but guess they are of OEM quality or better.

Great - thank god for that! Not a bad outcome in the end then i suppose!

[Marco]

An update on this one.... I've just dismantled this LT230 and it's IMO a bit shocking.

See enclosed images of the old casing and intermediate shaft hole, the shaft and the rear (main) bearing of the main shaft. I wanted to pull it off but it ended up to be a loose fit on to the shaft!

I could push the whole shaft front to rear as you can see in the movie, about 5mm play.

I'm not sure what to do as all indicates high mileage wear even parts are out of a reconditioned box. My initial plan is to rebuild this unit and replace it with my first rebuild (which is now in the car). But the parts on that one were in a much better shape than the parts of this professionally reconditioned box... I might stick with my first recon job for the time being.

Cheers

Marco

[Aragorn]

Has the play been caused by one of the bearings disintegrating?

[Marco]

Has the play been caused by one of the bearings disintegrating?

Not sure but the rear bearing is a loose fit on the shaft. Maybe it has grinded down itself a bit. Will try a new bearing hopefully it will fit onto the shaft tight.

Cheers

Marco

[Somethingwitty]

Not sure but the rear bearing is a loose fit on the shaft. Maybe it has grinded down itself a bit. Will try a new bearing hopefully it will fit onto the shaft tight.

Cheers

Marco

Marco,

If thats the rear bearing shown on the LH photo then it looks on cursory inspection as though it has been spining on the shaft - if true then it may have worn the shaft too much ie the new bearing will be immediately prone to the same fate. Of course, it won't fall apart immediately but the long term prospects may not be good. The amount of play in the video is phenomenal and FAR too much. Were there ANY shims used there?! That appears to be substantialy more than 'normal wear.'

I am sorry to say that I am not surprised - mine had a 'recon' (guess who?!) which failed entirely to fix the fault that was described in the first instance. Another attempt gave me a box which I could only drive in Low - removed sump plate to find the High o/p dog teeth were totaly the wrong form for the selector ring - ie it was PHYSICALY IMPOSSIBLE to select High! Happily I had already fitted the bloody thing (theres a lesson there - never assume, check - before fitting). 'Recon' as I discovered to my cost means replacing bearings and seals with the cheapest possible and sending it back out without either fixing a known fault or indeed testing the thing to ensure all gears are selectable. If you think for one moment anything else is changed then think again. Fitting it yourself will also mean you have no means of being compensated for your time should it prove to not work - they will not recognise your efforts or pay a nominal compensation even if it is their fault, except if they are paying a garage.

Funnily enough the main box done at the same time by same place failed after only 2 years / 20,000 miles IIRC - fifth gear gone, reconditioners (different place) were surprised at the wear on the syncros too, given its recent recon.

J

[M&S]

After finishing I will post the full list of bits used for this reconditioning job.

For instructions I'm using the LT230T Transfer Gearbox Overhaul Manual hosted here on my Landroverweb.com website.

The main problems I'm facing:

Bearing preload differential bearings and preload of the intermediate gear bearings. I do not have the special tools.

You can buy several LT230 units off the shelf for the price of those special tools! So getting them myself is a no go.... I will have to make a plan...

Cheers

Marco

Would just like to say thanks for this, I've got a box sat under the bench waiting to be rebuilt, it's my "winter" project. The manual looks invaluable and is spitting out of the printer now!

I'm sure everyone will be grateful if you did supply part numbers used as I shall be replacing all bearings and seals regardless so would be good to get those ordered before the strip down.

i shall have a read up regarding the preloads.

Thanks again

[Marco]

Marco,

If thats the rear bearing shown on the LH photo then it looks on cursory inspection as though it has been spining on the shaft - if true then it may have worn the shaft too much ie the new bearing will be immediately prone to the same fate. Of course, it won't fall apart immediately but the long term prospects may not be good. The amount of play in the video is phenomenal and FAR too much. Were there ANY shims used there?! That appears to be substantialy more than 'normal wear.'

Yes it has been spinning on the shaft which means this shaft is probably ready for the bin... which means end of that box / not possible to recondition it anymore. I've checked bearings used on this LT230 box and the are all 'New Sun' branded. That's China made and they "could be OEM quality" but are e.g. not Timken or SKF.

Cheers

Marco

[Marco]

Would just like to say thanks for this, I've got a box sat under the bench waiting to be rebuilt, it's my "winter" project. The manual looks invaluable and is spitting out of the printer now!

I'm sure everyone will be grateful if you did supply part numbers used as I shall be replacing all bearings and seals regardless so would be good to get those ordered before the strip down.

i shall have a read up regarding the preloads.

Thanks again

You're welcome. For part numbers, I did buy a complete kit incl. seals all OEM / genuine Timken.

Check this link for the parts catalogue, transfer box starts at page 361 of the pdf. It's 29mb file size and if you print this one your printer might start to smoke :-)

[Marco]

Yes it has been spinning on the shaft which means this shaft is probably ready for the bin... which means end of that box / not possible to recondition it anymore. I've checked bearings used on this LT230 box and the are all 'New Sun' branded. That's China made and they "could be OEM quality" but are e.g. not Timken or SKF.

Cheers

Marco

Update on my own post, the new bearing will slide on and off by hand so this shaft can not be used... another set back as I did buy the full bearing kit already. Have one more LT on the shelf, might try to create one recon box out of these two units.

[Marco]

An update on this one.... I've just dismantled this LT230 and it's IMO a bit shocking.

See enclosed images of the old casing and intermediate shaft hole, the shaft and the rear (main) bearing of the main shaft. I wanted to pull it off but it ended up to be a loose fit on to the shaft!

I could push the whole shaft front to rear as you can see in the movie, about 5mm play.

I'm not sure what to do as all indicates high mileage wear even parts are out of a reconditioned box. My initial plan is to rebuild this unit and replace it with my first rebuild (which is now in the car). But the parts on that one were in a much better shape than the parts of this professionally reconditioned box... I might stick with my first recon job for the time being.

Some additional text on this one, the YouTube movie. I've not named the parts properly which is confusing. Also I did not measure but estimated the movement front / rear of the differential assembly FRC7926 (wrongly named shaft by me). Some of the movement could be caused by the rear housing being removed. By now I've dismantled all so it's difficult to check which is causing what. The one fact I do have is the rear bearing fitted onto FRC7926. It could be pulled off by hand, no tools (bearing puller) needed.

The rebuild of this box is on hold, need to search for alternative bits first, I do have another LT230 (25D) unit on the shelf and hopefully the differential assembly on that one is in a better shape. Time will tell. Buying FR7926 is not a viable option, new >GBP 1,000 and non genuine around the 200 Mark. Wonder if somebody has fitted the non genuine part + can comment on it's durability.

Cheers

Marco

[tweetyduck]

I've fitted one (pattern part, center diff) in mine and it was identical and looks like a huge substantial lump of metal and can;t possibly see why it would be inferior to the origional or genuine. In fact i can't see anyone making them other than the OEM. Why would they, they can't sell many?

I've done about 2000 miles on mine so far. and have drained the box once after 500 to see if anything fell out. Nothing did.

IRC mine was £198 + VAT and delivery.I've just checked and its a FTC5207 which is the new part number. I obtained it from BRITCAR. RRP was £961

If you tell Duncan i sent you,,, you might get the same price although they seem to have gone up by about £20.

Don't forget the new High Low Gear Bush IEE100050

[Marco]

In fact i can't see anyone making them other than the OEM. Why would they, they can't sell many?

Thanks, and yes that's the question, I guess not that many people will buy for DIY recon jobs. And for the professional rebuilder, even if Britpart bits are fitted to recon boxes the price tag would superceed the selling price of a reconditioned box. e.g. core 150, new box 445 so 300 quid left for labour and parts... which is not much IMO. Not sure how much time is needed to do one box but workshop labour this side is around the 50 quid per hour.

Will try to strip my 25D this afternoon, hopelfully I can use the diff assembly of that box. To be continued.

Cheers

Marco

[Marco]

Dismantle the 25D box just now. All not to bad, there is no cross drilled input gear but splines are fine. Counted all gear ratios and they are the same compared with my 22D box. That's actually the way it should be as both are 1.410 boxes. (check this link and click on technical information to expand)

Unfortunately on this box the same problem with the rear bearing being a loose fit onto the differential assembly.

Some othere diferences, my 25D box has an intermediate gear with circlips inside the gear cluster, the 22D has no circlips fitted. I measured both and the bearing position is the samen. Guess 22D no clips superceeded clipped 25D. Actuallly there is no use for those clips anyway as the bearing is a tight fit to the center part of the gear cluster + can not move further inwards.

Anyway not sure what I will do, create one new box and use the differential assembly of the last box (slighly better / more tight than the other one) or order a new part. The main question, what will be the expected life time if I do not repplace the differential assembly. I would not be surprised if let say 50% of all LT230 running around this planet do have a loose rear bearing. I guess the reconditiones should know the answer. My statistics so far 2 out of 3 LT230 units did have a loose bearing.

Cheers

Marco