One Battery or Two for Winching?

[britishnick]

All,

I have recently installed my winch. Fits and works very well. I would highly recommend Dave Bowyer for his customer service and helping me through this process.

Now that I have it wired in and tested, before I proceed much further I want to make a final decisoion about powering the winch. Currently it is all wired back to the battery box of my Defender, it has a on/off switch on the positive but thats it. I have searched the forums and seem to come across a huge ammount of detail (and discussion) about the pro's/cons of;

- One large capacity battery

- Two medium capacity batteries

- Two batteries, one standard, one "deep" capacity (for the winch I guess)

- .....then all the problems with split charging and the appropriate devices to help with that.

For a newbie, that can all be a dangerous amount of information. Help!

I am very capable of the hands on work, but some kind of schematic and idiots guide would be helpful....does it exist?

So, my question. I think I want to go with two batteries, but they must fit in the standard battery box of a Defender 90. It looks like some sort of charging device is required, but I have no idea what/which one. If there is an idiots guide or someone willing to point me in a few educated directions I would appreciate it.

Battery types, charging type, wiring diagram, etc, etc

Thanks in advance,

NIck

[cipx2]

First thing to consider is what are you using the Defender for?

Because if you're using it on winch challenges then you might need 3 batteries but if you put it there for your own piece of mind for occasional off the road ventures then the vehicle's standard battery would be enough. Same if you have or don't have or plan installing other electrical power hungry bits on your vehicle (like a fridge).

[chappers]

I run twin numax batterys in parralel with a Mondeo alternator works a treat never have any problems and it doesn't cost as much as a split charge and you get two battery worth of amps going to all your circuits but still 12 volt =] just a suggestion

[rusty_wingnut]

two Numax X-eng split charge - job done.

[lansalot]

I've two pretty-standard (and well-used) batteries running in parallel.

The other week, I winched myself out of trouble with the engine off - a good couple minutes worth of heavy pulling. Started straight up (3.5 v8) afterwards.

Unless you're going mad, I'd stick with the "keep it simple" and just wire them up in parallel. If you find things don't cope the way you'd hope in the future, you can amend then. Why over-engineer/cost if you don't have to ?

[mickeyw]

As said by cipx2, it depends what you intend to use the winch for and what winch it is.

I have an ancient Warn M8000 that for years was hooked upto my single battery, a tractor spec 643. This is about the tallest that will fit under the seat without modifications. These batteries have pretty hefty reserves for starting big deisel engines. Later on I had a battery from a BMW 530D, not sure of the spec but it always did the job.

I used to manage plenty of fairly heavy winching (but not challenge style you understand) with these batteries and a 70 amp alternator.

Now I have twin Numax batteries and a split charge relay like the X-charge. These are physically much smaller but still pack a lot of punch. They are topped up by a 100 amp alternator on the serpentine 3.9 engine.

To wire up a split charge like this is very simple, but I did have to mod the battery box to fit them in. My truck is 1986, I think later battery compartments may differ slightly (more room). My main reason for going with two was so allow overnight running of auxilliaries rather than for winching specifically, but this setup works very well too.

One thing I will say is that the winch solenoids can make a huge difference to performance. The bank of 4 crappy silver ones are not the most reliable. The Albright style seem a better bet these days.

Very much horses for courses. For occassional winching I'd save my pennies and stick with a H/D single battery such as a 643.

[LandyManLuke]

It's worth noting that deep cycle/leisure batteries are not designed for intense high current demand like winching. They are designed for sustained periods of reasonable current draw, without re-charging, such as overnight caravan lights, fridges etc, followed by sustained charging.

To a battery, a winch motor looks very much like a starter motor, in that it draws a very large current, but not for long durations. Of course, a winch motor is likely to run for much longer than a starter motor.

Because of the way they are designed, deep cycle batteries can not produce the same amount of instantaneous current as a standard battery of the same size.

If you look at X-eng's Numax batteries, they offer 1000A MCA, a deep cycle battery would never be designed to give this sort of performance.

In short, I would just use standard, large batteries (Like Numax), rather than 'deep cycle' batteries.

[white90]

I have the cxv-x s fitted now to replace mine that lasted 5years

always connected in parallel

from http://www.tayna.co.uk/Numax-CXV24MF-P3126.html

[britishnick]

All - cheers for all your help. For my first post, I appreciate the responses.

In answer to cipx2's question. The winch is for peace of mind plus the odd sticky situation. Nothing more at the moment.

General responses seem to suggest two batteries wired in parallel as a good place to start. Some of you have commented about changing the alternator, but its not really clear if this is necessary.

Nick

[white90]

Alternator not necessary for your current plans

I have x1 100amp alt to replace the 65amp standard that I ran for ages

I have 2nd 100amp in the wings awaiting fitment.

this is a security measure as I have never had any issues with current supply with just one.

[88 inch of pure pleasure]

wow thanks guys answerd all my questions in one,now were is that bank card

[SteveG]

wow thanks guys answerd all my questions in one,now were is that bank card

Best to buy two of same type and at the same time.

Another vote for simple two batteries in parallel set-up.

Steve

[Retroanaconda]

I just have two big batteries in there, linked via a split-charge as I sometimes like to run auxillary devices off the second battery without the worry of not being able to start the truck the next morning.

If you don't need that capability, then two big batteries in parallel will serve just as well.

[mickeyw]

The winch is for peace of mind plus the odd sticky situation. Nothing more at the moment.

I don't know how big your winch is or what engine your truck has, but for say an 8000lb winch, and I'm guessing a 300tdi alternator must be knocking out 65 amps, I would stick with the standard alternator and a single decent battery. If this proves insufficient you can always upgrade.

[nicks90]

when i put my winch on i went through the same dilemma as you,

I ended up keeping it simple and measured the physical space in my battery box and took a trip down to the local unipart.

They had all the dimensions of their truck/van batteries on their computer and just matched up the biggest physical battery that would squeeze into the battery box.

I had to redrill the little holes in the bottom of the box to relocate the metal threaded bars that hold the battery in place and the battery is IMMENSE! It just fits in there. It looks tighter in there than white90s twin battery setup.

Cant remember off the top of my head what output it has, but its HUGE. Also means i never had to worry about putting any new wiring in, crimping wire into double terminals, blahblahblah And i think the battery only cost £70. Cheaper than buying 2 normal batteries.

Alternator died on the engine after an event at frickley, but i carried on using it as my daily driver for a week before the replacement alternator arrived. I was intending to put the battery on charge overnight to keep things happy, but it just didnt need it! Cranked the engine just as fast and stereo and lights still worked fine by the friday with no perceptible battery degredation.

[britishnick]

Cant remember off the top of my head what output it has, but its HUGE. Also means i never had to worry about putting any new wiring in, crimping wire into double terminals, blahblahblah And i think the battery only cost £70. Cheaper than buying 2 normal batteries.

Do you know that battery manufacture - sounds great ?

Nick