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I 'need' a R/R P38 4.6


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Hi Folks

I've just realised that I need a P38 4.6 V8. I've currently got a Defender 90 TD5 which is great for it's purpose of occasional towing/carrying gear for house renovations etc., but the manual gearbox has always been an irritation to me as I can't be bothered with it. My daily drive is an American GMC 4.3l auto which I use more than I should (my wife doesn't like being left with the Defender) as I love the power and auto gearbox. So after a moment considering an auto fitted to my TD5, I started looking at P38's - and I now 'need' one!

What I'd like to know is - will I get the huge grin I'm expecting from the 4.6 V8 when planting the toe? Will it p*ss all over the Pug 206 driving nerds as I dream it will?

MPG is irrelevant as I can drive my GMC if I want economy (GMC = 17 to 19 MPG :P ), but what should I expect when standard 'car' type driving?

And the easiest to answer question of all - how reliable? I'm not bothered about the odd window/seat/uneccessary electric bit not working, but I've been reading about engine temperature issue's and stuff, but surely they can't be ALL bad? Will £3K get anything reasonable? Possibly daft questions(?), but I really have never considered a R/R before and I need to buy one fast before the novelty idea wears off for my wife (she currently thinks this is going to replace my Defender - but she will learn through time that it is 'aswell as'!).

Thanks

Dennis

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V8s are cheap, so you should get a nice one for £3k. Plenty around so look carefully and walk away from anything you aren't sure of.

Economy will be around the same as your GMC. I've not driven a V8 P38, but my classic (3.9 V8) had a fairly large grin factor and would show anything but a proper hot hatch a clean set of heels at the lights.

So far mine hasn't been any worse than I'd expect from a Land Rover with over 100K on the clock, but there is the concern that all the clever electronics make a call for a yellow taxi more likely if something does go wrong - I had to have mine recovered to a garage with just a flat battery when I couldn't get the immobiliser to accept it's unlock code. There's something to be said for the advice I've seen before that you should spend some of your budget on diagnostic kit - about £650 for a single vehicle system.

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yes a 4.6 p38 will put a smile on your face and if you slip it into sport mode wil show most things on the road a clean pair of heels , mind you the fuel guage needle moves nearly as quickly as the speedo :lol: just make sure all your bushes and bearings are up to scratch as the behmoth is not the lightest of things and a wobbly p38 in a corner at ehem 70 :ph34r: is 'fun' belive me

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Thanks for your replies, and I'm pleased not to have anyone recommend I don't do it! That really could have put an end to my sweet dreams - and the mention of 'sport mode' just fuels the excitement (I'd forgot about that button)!

My search continues ..................

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In sports mode you will leave most hatchbacks except the really sporty ones behind, just don't try and keep up with one round corners.

Straight lines are good corners aren't that bad if the suspension is in good condition but on high speed corners most hatchbacks will be able to do speeds that are downright scarey in a vehicle the size and height of a P38.

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Mmm, there's mentions of cornering not being so good - I live in Orkney where the road is just one big corner all the way round!! Maybe I could fit +4" suspension on just the one side to assist with this? :unsure: But that might be a problem when going the other way?

For the hot hatch races - that was more of a comparison on the power I could expect from the 4.6 V8. I tend to find that with more powerful vehicles (my 4.3 GMC for example) that I set cruise control on at 55mph and watch the cars go past in their 'false hurry'. It's nice having the power available for moments I'm on my own though (I'm mostly a 33, going on 83 type driver).

Thanks again for the helpful comments though

Dennis

P.s. To those who've PM'd me - I'll be replying once I find your spot on the map, etc. You contacts are much appreciated.

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Dennis,

I've got a 4.6 P38 and when it is running, its great.

I'd second Geoffs point about setting some money aside for diagnostic equipment - I've got the MSV Faultmate II from Blackbox which is very useful although I found its not the easiest system to get familar with.

When I got mine, I replaced the air suspension bladders and shock absorbers - Very easy and worth doing to minimise the work the pump has to do, therefore prolonging its life. Also replaced discs and pads - very easy job.

At 100k miles, I'm currently rebuilding the top end of the engine - Laborious but straight forward (ish). Probably costing me about £700 in bits.

Its worth reading up on RangeRovers.net to get familar with heater "o" rings, blend motors, HVAC issues so that you can identify them on any potential candicates and negotiate accordingly.

Comfort is excellent and presence on smaller roads is very useful. I'd guess that Orkney has a few single track roads and the P38 would be great for squeezing by on the verge. Auto is great for narrow/up/down roads. Cornering is something you get used to - the body rolls but its fairly predicable.

If you tow traliers regularly, the air suspension is great. (Access mode allows you to hitch up without having to wind the jockey wheel).

I've got 19" RR Sport wheels on mine which maybe makes the ride a tad too firm..

Good luck! Do it.

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I'd second Geoffs point about setting some money aside for diagnostic equipment - I've got the MSV Faultmate II from Blackbox which is very useful although I found its not the easiest system to get familar with.

I've had a look online at this, but in laymans terms, why do I need something like this/what does it actually do for me?

When I got mine, I replaced the air suspension bladders and shock absorbers - Very easy and worth doing to minimise the work the pump has to do, therefore prolonging its life. Also replaced discs and pads - very easy job.

At 100k miles, I'm currently rebuilding the top end of the engine - Laborious but straight forward (ish). Probably costing me about £700 in bits.

I'm learning that money is more than likely going to be draining from my pockets - that's not a problem yet as I've still got a sellable kidney (I hear they also pay your return flight for the op!) :D

Comfort is excellent and presence on smaller roads is very useful. I'd guess that Orkney has a few single track roads and the P38 would be great for squeezing by on the verge. Auto is great for narrow/up/down roads. Cornering is something you get used to - the body rolls but its fairly predicable.

Predictable body roll will be nice - My GMC corners like it's on a waterbed!

If you tow traliers regularly, the air suspension is great. (Access mode allows you to hitch up without having to wind the jockey wheel).

Access mode? Sounds like it could be to assist me to get into the car - I'm just 5'2" :P

Good luck! Do it.

Thanks, and I really 'need' to get one more now.

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Well, that's me happy now - I'm the owner of a 1996 4.6 P38! :D

All electrics / toys except the stereo works (not a big concern, but I'll likely be looking to sort some sounds out later) and the temperature gauge sits in the middle, both during it's test drive and then 90 mile drive.

A mechanic friend had a look over it for me before buying and was happy, so as he's happy, I'm happy. I guess I've another forum to visit regularly now :lol:

Thanks again to all who previously posted.

Dennis

P.s. I'll be searching for sound system info, but if anyone has previously seen a good post on this, then a point in the right direction would be appreciated.

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Dennis,

Until recently, my P38 had the Harman Kardon sound system. I sent the head unit off to Roverville (See Rangerovers.net for details) for a service but wanted to be able to hard connect my ipod so replaced it a couple of weeks ago with an Alpine.

However, the HK system has an amp unit in each door. The front doors have 3 speakers each, the rear have 2 and there is a big sub box in the boot. I wanted to keep all of these initially so identified the speaker wires to the doors and the "power on" signal wires for the amps then soldered phono plugs to the supply wires and connected the power supplies for the amps to the "remote on" wire from the new Alpine head unit.

Works a treat! Unfortunately, I only had four phono out plugs on the head unit so the sub box is currently not being used - I might just remove it and build a storage box in its place...

Bigger things to worry about at the moment though, the engine is in bits :rolleyes:

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I think you'll also find that the Harmon Kardon system isn't designed to take line level inputs (at least for the door amps), but somewhere in between line level and normal high level (direct to speaker) - there's an article on rangerovers.net, with a circuit to pull high level inputs from an aftermarket head unit down to a suitable level. I take it you're finding line-level works fine, then?

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Yup, works fine for me and much better than the HK head unit it replaced. I dare say it could be improved but not without a bunch of cash, new wiring & speakers... (There is a slight buzz that is only obvious at very low volumes with the engine off).

After all, its a '96 Range Rover, currently on Goodyear MTR's so its not quite got the ambiance of the Sydney Opera House :D

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Hi Folks

Yep, I'll be posting pictures soon.

I'll have to have a dig around to see what's left of the sound system - it has had it's head unit removed! I'd been assuming (never assume I'm told!) that I'd have to get an original head unit, but that's good to hear I may be able to fiddle around getting something else to work. While I earn a small crust fiddling with wires, I've not done much with speakers and amps (what was wrong with those fancy 2 channel wireless's of old?) but I should hopefully manage to figure something out - likely with some questions posted on here along the way :)

Thanks again

Dennis

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  • 2 weeks later...

well get some pics of it up in the show me yours thread chap we need to see it :)

rob

I've finally got round to taking pictures, but when looking through the above mentioned 'show me yours' thread, I feel it more appropriate to add them here as the vehicles in that thread look real offroad machines with their wheels/tires etc., and this P38 is just standard (a bit inadequate looking for that thread?).

post-5697-125979895853_thumb.jpg

Here is a pic beside my Defender, and also GMC.

post-5697-125979897517_thumb.jpg

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Over the past few days I've been trying to tidy up some of the minor things that have come to light - no cruise control, and the passenger side climate control was on hot 'all' the time.

For the hot air problem, I was looking for the passenger side temperature blend motor, but it wasn't there, the flap was held on hot permanently by a ty-wrap! Now it's held more to the middle with two ty-wraps :lol: The motor was eventually found lying around under all the ducts and stuff, and didn't rotate when any controls are functioned. As all the other functions appear to work, I intend getting another motor to get it all working again, but as it had already been disconnected - just leaving the plastic blend flap lever - are there any other bits other than a new blend motor that I require? Sorry, it's difficult to describe what I mean, but I'm not sure how the motor actuates the flap arm i.e. are there any metal rods etc. going from the motor to the flap arm or anything?

The cruise control vacuum pipes have already been replaced and it still doesn't work, but that's a job for after I sort this blend motor.

Thanks once again

Dennis

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....

For the hot air problem, I was looking for the passenger side temperature blend motor, but it wasn't there, the flap was held on hot permanently by a ty-wrap! Now it's held more to the middle with two ty-wraps :lol: The motor was eventually found lying around under all the ducts and stuff, and didn't rotate when any controls are functioned. As all the other functions appear to work, I intend getting another motor to get it all working again, but as it had already been disconnected - just leaving the plastic blend flap lever - are there any other bits other than a new blend motor that I require? Sorry, it's difficult to describe what I mean, but I'm not sure how the motor actuates the flap arm i.e. are there any metal rods etc. going from the motor to the flap arm or anything?

....

Dennis

The blend motor engages directly with the flap, all the leverage gain required is done by gearing within the blend motor housing. The lever you can see, and which I assume is tyrap-ed, is not used when the blend motor is fitted. I don't know whether it is used when Climate Control isn't specified, but that's academic now.

You may know already, but blend motors came new in sets of three, 2 x Blend + 1 x Distribution.

Second hand come as whatever you can get, but they all wire to a single plug. Buying a single motor will probably mean cut wires. Not an unsolvable problem, but there are 5 wires.

The HEVAC ECU will have disabled the existing blend motor, so it won't move unless you take special actions.

If you adjust the passenger heat setting to LO, switch off the engine, then switch it on again, you might see the motor move. If this works it leaves the alternative work round option, which may not be appropriate for you if the half open flap gives what you need. On the other hand, even if you don't connect the motor to the flap, this should get rid of the book symbol IF, repeat IF, this is the only fault the HEVAC is seeing.

The assumption here is that the blend motor has failed because it gave an implausible feedback value when the HEVAC automatic control sent it to full hot. In the UK, and with a vehicle kept outside, this 'send to full hot' happens most times you start the engine after an overnight stand. Setting the temperature to LO overrides the automatic Climate Control, so when you leave the vehicle at the end of the day, set the faulty side to LO, then switch off.

Next morning, leave the faulty side on LO, but perhaps crank up the drivers side a couple of degrees, until you feel a comfortable temperature is reached. Then adjust the passenger side to a low value, say 16 to 18. Because the internal temp sensor records the interior as warm enough the Climate Control won't send the blend flap to full hot.

As the feedback values are only read at Maximum and Minimum (which is almost zero, and thus unlikely to fail), the automatic Climate Control will work for the rest of the day. With the proviso that if the car is left in freezing conditions for 8 hours you may have follow the overnight procedure every time.

As this test is only a button pushing exercise I think it's worth try.

Good Luck.

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The blend motor engages directly with the flap, all the leverage gain required is done by gearing within the blend motor housing. The lever you can see, and which I assume is tyrap-ed, is not used when the blend motor is fitted. I don't know whether it is used when Climate Control isn't specified, but that's academic now.

You may know already, but blend motors came new in sets of three, 2 x Blend + 1 x Distribution.

Second hand come as whatever you can get, but they all wire to a single plug. Buying a single motor will probably mean cut wires. Not an unsolvable problem, but there are 5 wires.

The HEVAC ECU will have disabled the existing blend motor, so it won't move unless you take special actions.

If you adjust the passenger heat setting to LO, switch off the engine, then switch it on again, you might see the motor move. If this works it leaves the alternative work round option, which may not be appropriate for you if the half open flap gives what you need. On the other hand, even if you don't connect the motor to the flap, this should get rid of the book symbol IF, repeat IF, this is the only fault the HEVAC is seeing.

The assumption here is that the blend motor has failed because it gave an implausible feedback value when the HEVAC automatic control sent it to full hot. In the UK, and with a vehicle kept outside, this 'send to full hot' happens most times you start the engine after an overnight stand. Setting the temperature to LO overrides the automatic Climate Control, so when you leave the vehicle at the end of the day, set the faulty side to LO, then switch off.

Next morning, leave the faulty side on LO, but perhaps crank up the drivers side a couple of degrees, until you feel a comfortable temperature is reached. Then adjust the passenger side to a low value, say 16 to 18. Because the internal temp sensor records the interior as warm enough the Climate Control won't send the blend flap to full hot.

As the feedback values are only read at Maximum and Minimum (which is almost zero, and thus unlikely to fail), the automatic Climate Control will work for the rest of the day. With the proviso that if the car is left in freezing conditions for 8 hours you may have follow the overnight procedure every time.

As this test is only a button pushing exercise I think it's worth try.

Good Luck.

Thanks for that.

And yes, that quick test certainly was worth a try but unfortunately the book symbol didn't clear and I didn't see the motor shaft rotate either. This vehicle was originally supposed to be a second car type run around for me, but my wife now likes it so much that she wants to use it for her everyday car instead of the GMC - not ideal for me - but it means I'd like to get this blend motor working as it should be (contradicting my opening post saying I wasn't bothered about unneccessary electrics!). As I can get a single motor a good bit cheaper than all three I think I'll go for that option, so for the five wires is that two for the motor and three for a pot for position feedback? Once fitted, and assuming it's a pot, can I force it to self calibrate or will it entail a visit to a dealer?

Thanks once again.

Dennis

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This'll likely be an easy one 'for those that know' - the passenger rear door doesn't illuminate the interior lights when opened, but I can't find the usual switches as I assumed it'd likely be a dirty connection with this age of vehicle. Can anybody point me in the direction of where the switch is located please?

Thanks

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.... As I can get a single motor a good bit cheaper than all three I think I'll go for that option, so for the five wires is that two for the motor and three for a pot for position feedback?

Yes. I'm assuming that as the existing motor is still connected to the plug, and your 'new' motor will come with cut wires I think connection will be by an inline solder and heat shrink. ISTR that all the wires are different colours, so it's just cut the old motor out and solder the wires colour to colour.

Once fitted, and assuming it's a pot, can I force it to self calibrate or will it entail a visit to a dealer?

You can't 'force' it to self calibrate. It will either be within limits (no action required), or it won't, in which case somebody, Dealer or 'Independent with the kit' runs through a Calibration procedure.

Note that the system does a self calibrate occasionally, it tells you in the book the number of operations between calibrations, but I can't be bothered to look it up. The HEVAC system does a self check every time you switch it on, which is why you can get away with just installing a new motor. I don't know where you are getting your motor from, but are you certain it's going to be good?

Reports say that recalibrating a worn motor isn't a guarantee of long term success.

HTH

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This'll likely be an easy one 'for those that know' - the passenger rear door doesn't illuminate the interior lights when opened, but I can't find the usual switches as I assumed it'd likely be a dirty connection with this age of vehicle. Can anybody point me in the direction of where the switch is located please?

Thanks

There is no separate switch. It's part of the latch. A clean and de-gunk of the latch may be sufficient to allow the microswitch to work, or it might be a wiring fault in the door, or at the door to body loom connection. For the rear doors this is probably hidden in the B pillar.

Just in case it needs making clear, the switch doesn't control the lights. The switch signals the BECM, and it's the BECM which completes the circuit for the lights.

HTH

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There is no separate switch. It's part of the latch. A clean and de-gunk of the latch may be sufficient to allow the microswitch to work, or it might be a wiring fault in the door, or at the door to body loom connection. For the rear doors this is probably hidden in the B pillar.

Just in case it needs making clear, the switch doesn't control the lights. The switch signals the BECM, and it's the BECM which completes the circuit for the lights.

HTH

Thank you.

Ok, so at least I know why I couldn't find a switch. That door also doesn't lock/unlock with the central locking, so maybe I should be looking for a common fault - if it's even connected! Still, I'll now know where to look.

I also hadn't considered the switching being done via the BECM, so a high contact resistance would be less critical then, although still a problem.

Something to snoop around though......................

Dennis

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