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PAS conversion with P38 box


Snagger

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Helena has been using the 109 for the school runs while I wait for the RRC's injection pump to be returned after overhaul. Even I find that it's a pig to maneouver in tight spaces, but Helena is half my size.

I really need to fit PAS to make it more useable in town for future occasions when the other car is unavailable.

I'd prefer not to have to remove the front cross member in order to fit the standard Defender/Discovery/RRC PAS box, so was thinking of using a P38 box that sits outboard of the chassis rail. Has anyone seen this done, and if so, could you please post some details?

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I guess you might be a pioneer on this one :ph34r:

Hopefully this is some help though. Jericho did a similar thing but using a left hooker box. Same principles apply i guess. Just different dimensions.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=8638&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

You will probably end up having to mod/ reinforce your lovely galvo chassis to suit though :blink:

Chris

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If you want to minimise chassis mods, could you not fit one of the steering ram type power steering kits? Not cheap but might suit it better??

http://www.heystee-automotive.com/parts/pas/pas.htm

Too expensive for a start, and it doesn't increase the precision of the steering like a conventional LR PAS system does.

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If you bolt it to the outside do you not have to cut the x-member anyway to do the bolts up? :huh:

You'll have to weld crush tubes into the chassis for the bolts anyway, so it's not like it's a bolt-on conversion.

I haven't got a P38 box to take dimensions from, but I was hoping that I could either just cut a small hole along the weld line of the cross member to rail joint to fit any nuts and washer that needed to be fitted inside that section, or to use an 8mm spreader plate on the outside of the rail with stiffener plates along the top and bottom (creating a C-section that partially wraps around the chassis rail) connected to the rail with cross-bolts at the front and rear and holding the box on with bolts straight through the plate with clearance holes for the heads of the bolts in line with the cross member, the other bolts passing all the way through.

As for the crush tubes, I was wondering if drilling the bolt holes oversize to allow an interference fit of the crush tubes (made of stainless steel) would eliminate the need for welding them in place.

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Search for bills pics,he did a great job.

I did not have bolts through the chassis.6mm plate with 4 nuts welded to the back - the plate is taller than the chassis rail,extending 30mm above the top line of the chassis.the two upper bolts/nuts sit above the chassis rail.the two lower nuts required two corresponding holes cut in the side of the chassis rail.the plate was then welded on the side of the chassis rail round all four of its sides. two reinforcing gussets were welded across the top of the rail,and a square plate on the bottom,butted up to the side plate.do not underestimate the forces applied by the steering box.

It was a very easy conversion - the box being mounted within an hour or two.A new custom drag link was needed IIRC.

It is so easy that I am supprised more people have not done it.A less bulky box than the rover 6 bolt would be an improvement.

To give credit where it is due,I took my inspiration from Terry Ann Wakeman's series PAS conversion - look up her web site if you haven't seen it - lots of good ideas and pictures.http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/PowerSteering.htm

edit- you posted while I was typing - you were already thinking along the same lines.

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I haven't got a P38 box to take dimensions from, but I was hoping that I could either just cut a small hole along the weld line of the cross member to rail joint to fit any nuts and washer that needed to be fitted inside that section, or to use an 8mm spreader plate on the outside of the rail with stiffener plates along the top and bottom (creating a C-section that partially wraps around the chassis rail) connected to the rail with cross-bolts at the front and rear and holding the box on with bolts straight through the plate with clearance holes for the heads of the bolts in line with the cross member, the other bolts passing all the way through.

As for the crush tubes, I was wondering if drilling the bolt holes oversize to allow an interference fit of the crush tubes (made of stainless steel) would eliminate the need for welding them in place.

Have a look here, i might inspire you, not a rover box.

http://www.seriestrek.com/steering.html

G

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Have a look here, i might inspire you, not a rover box.

http://www.seriestrek.com/steering.html

G

Thanks for that link - it's almost exactly what I had in mind for mounting the similar P38 box. Maybe if I used 1/2" plate on the outside, I could just drill and tap the box mounting holes so the chassis would not need large holes for nuts or bolt heads, only the holes near the ends for attaching the plate to the rail. That's assuming I can get some plate that would have threads as strong as high tensile nuts.

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I'm actually doing this at the moment, two shakle bush tubes on top of the chassis rail , ditto below, two location bars alongside the shaft case and it should be ok.

Mind you I've not finished the job (will take many years as its a rebuild). Battery tray goes, but other than that it's a good job.

Check out

http://www.landroveraddict.com/smf/index.php?topic=381907.0

You need to register - but I think you've already there.

Also TeriAnn Wakeman (series hero) has done this on a LHD with a Scout PAS box. She covers the brackets and also connecting to the steering shaft. NB welding steering components is a NoNo in the UK. Google expedition rover.

Hope this helps.

Random Photos can be seen on

http://s881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/wildefalcon/

G.

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NB welding steering components is a NoNo in the UK.

No it isn't, read the MOT manual. Badly done welded repairs are a fail.

Given the reinforcement inside the chassis of LR's with PAS boxes, I'm a bit wary of these ideas about mounting a box to one side of the chassis. Manufacturers do things for a reason. My truck runs big tyres, with heavy loads, on rough roads, and has been great steering-wise. The job really isn't hard either, here's my conversion pics.

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No it isn't, read the MOT manual. Badly done welded repairs are a fail.

Given the reinforcement inside the chassis of LR's with PAS boxes, I'm a bit wary of these ideas about mounting a box to one side of the chassis. Manufacturers do things for a reason. My truck runs big tyres, with heavy loads, on rough roads, and has been great steering-wise. The job really isn't hard either, here's my conversion pics.

Agreed, which is why mines mounted to 4 tubes top and bottom of the chassis. The tubes are then braced to the chassis, like the top mount of a 109 rear shock. In addition there will be a plate on the inside of the rail that will sandwich the tubes to the box, which is locked in place by locating bars each side of the downshaft casing.

As I recall the MOT requirements are for the repair to be to manufacturers standard (or similar words) and in the absence of proof that the welding is such there will be a fail. I suppose a qualified welder could certify the job is done to standard, though. So in general welding to steering components isn't done that often.

Mind you, the series shaft is a three piece construction that is welded together. Mine even rattles when shaken, so presumably there is some debris in the tube!

Anyway, I don't live there anymore so I'm not bothered!

G.

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Fridge - thanks for the link you your photos. that looks like it's not too bad a job to take on, but I'd rather use the P38 box if I can because they seem so much more reliable and I'd prefer to leave the existing cross member if I can.

Gazzar, you're a star! That job looks ideal - welding a few tubes and webs to the top and bottom of the chassis rail is not to hard and shouldn't harm the galvanising too much in the surrounding area or be terribly difficult. With the reinforcing plate on the inside, I can't see that coming loose either. I think I'd use a stiffening plate on the outside too - 6mm should be more than sufficient. That would make it a hybrid of yours and Fridges fixings.

Have you tried connecting the Defender intermediate shaft UJ to the PAS box's shaft or the P38 UJ to the Defender shaft yet? I'm wondering whether the splined stub shaft has the same dimensions and spline set as the 4-bolt boxes.

As for the drop arm, does the hole accept a standard Series or Defender rod end, or does it need reaming?

Final question (for now) - does the road wheel clear the box on full left lock (I'm assuming you still have standard Series axles)?

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gotta be quick battery nearly gone.

pitman arm is same taper , but prob too short though, i could swap with the disco 1 item which is an inch longer. intermediate shafh should connect but I'm using a series item to preserve wirespokes wheel (welding on a disco shaft end!). I'll have to take off the pitman arm and centralise it anyway.

as for clearance - it should but Ive not tried yet (bare chassis) take your time and trial fit the box a couble of times - the series swivel mount flange is the thing to watch for. Full lock shouldn't be a problem even on max articulation, but an extended bump stop should help if it is.

if the box is fore of the bumpstop it should be ok. having a thinner reinforcing plate (or none in my case) helps.

Gotta go: school run!!

G.

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