Anorak_Stan Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hi, I'm looking to upgrade My milemarker Winches to a similar spec as the Type R Variant (Without Changing The Drum) Can anybody tell me what size PTO Driven Pump & Motor to fit I seem to remember someone telling me 38 CC/Rev pump & 100CC Motor but My memory is not always that reliable so I would like a more definative answer. All (Sensible) comments welcome Lyndon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD5 power Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 hi there are a lot of variables that need to be taken into account: System pressure what engine speed, gear you want to run at gearing in your winch drum size (diameter) if you post up answers to the above it should make choosing components a lot easier HTH Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemarker Type S Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Type R uses 26cc/rev pump and a 100cc/rev motor (MS100) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I worked out what i BELIEVE the specs for the standard and Type R motor are - don't quote me if it all goes bang.... Milemarker OEM – Whites Hydraulics 200 series ● Displacement 204 cu cc/rev ● Continuous Flow - 60.5 litre/min ● Max Flow - 76 litre/min ● Continuous Pressure - 1750psi ● Max Presure - 2250psi ● Continuous Shaft RPM – 300rpm ● Max RPM - 370rpm ● Max Torque - 3050in/lbs Type R Motor - M&S Hydraulic MR100 ● Displacement 99.8 cu cm/rev ● Max speed 600 rpm ● Max torque 2124in/lbs ● Max flow 60 l/min As you can see, the new motor will be about twice as fast for any given flow rate, but will loose about 66% maximum torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jericho Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Allan Byrne at one time supplied a 33cc parker pump with his type R set-up,but more recently said he couldn't source them anymore. 26cc is a bit small,definitely small for a pto drive where you may be running the pump at less than engine revs. You may as well fit the biggest you can find,but anything over 30cc in a group 2 pump seams to be very expensive.I found a supplier with 39cc group 2 pumps but they were £300! There is a chap on ebay regularly selling cheap no-name pumps;his name is something like 'laminaflow'.I bought a new 30cc pump for less than £70 delivered. My 2p worth is - if its for competition use,don't bother with any group 2 pump on a pto. Make a group 3 fit the pto - 60cc or above.And even then,I found a pto drive a pain to use:in and out of neutral on the transfer box. P.S. the M&S motor supplied with the type R is a copy of the Danfoss EPRM motor. Harrier Hydraulics sell another copy of the 100 cc Danfoss motor with 750 rpm.max, and 2832 in.lb. max torque,so slightly better than the M&S if the above figures are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorak_Stan Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Type R uses 26cc/rev pump and a 100cc/rev motor (MS100) "Milemarker Type S" Thanks for this These will give me a starting point Lyndon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorak_Stan Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 I worked out what i BELIEVE the specs for the standard and Type R motor are - don't quote me if it all goes bang.... Milemarker OEM – Whites Hydraulics 200 series ● Displacement 204 cu cc/rev ● Continuous Flow - 60.5 litre/min ● Max Flow - 76 litre/min ● Continuous Pressure - 1750psi ● Max Presure - 2250psi ● Continuous Shaft RPM – 300rpm ● Max RPM - 370rpm ● Max Torque - 3050in/lbs Type R Motor - M&S Hydraulic MR100 ● Displacement 99.8 cu cm/rev ● Max speed 600 rpm ● Max torque 2124in/lbs ● Max flow 60 l/min As you can see, the new motor will be about twice as fast for any given flow rate, but will loose about 66% maximum torque. "SiWhite" Thanks for this info it will definitely give some help selecting pumps & motors and comparing specs Lyndon C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorak_Stan Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Allan Byrne at one time supplied a 33cc parker pump with his type R set-up,but more recently said he couldn't source them anymore. 26cc is a bit small,definitely small for a pto drive where you may be running the pump at less than engine revs. You may as well fit the biggest you can find,but anything over 30cc in a group 2 pump seams to be very expensive.I found a supplier with 39cc group 2 pumps but they were £300! There is a chap on ebay regularly selling cheap no-name pumps;his name is something like 'laminaflow'.I bought a new 30cc pump for less than £70 delivered. My 2p worth is - if its for competition use,don't bother with any group 2 pump on a pto. Make a group 3 fit the pto - 60cc or above.And even then,I found a pto drive a pain to use:in and out of neutral on the transfer box. P.S. the M&S motor supplied with the type R is a copy of the Danfoss EPRM motor. Harrier Hydraulics sell another copy of the 100 cc Danfoss motor with 750 rpm.max, and 2832 in.lb. max torque,so slightly better than the M&S if the above figures are correct. "jericho" Thank you as well for this info, I will give "laminarflo" a try to see what he has, just to clarify is there any other difference between a Group 2 & Group 3 Pump other than the Displacement ? I think I'm going to agree with you about the PTO approach being a pain in the but - putting it in & out of Neutral (plus no Drive Assist)but I'm using a PTO as a test bed until I can sort the correct Pump Size etc then I will spend the time to come up with a "Nice" engine driven solution. Lyndon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jericho Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 The most important difference between group 2 and group 3 pumps is that they have different mounting flanges/bolt patterns. Most pto drives are for group 2 pumps (maxidrive made the only landrover group 3 pto that I have seen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy mad Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 why not put a 80cc motor http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLOWFIT-HYDRAULIC-MOTOR-80-CC-REV-AMP080ACD_W0QQitemZ250521264022QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item3a543b1f96 with a 89 cc pump http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HYDRAULIC-GEAR-PUMP-GROUP-3-89cc-rev-4-bolt-mount_W0QQitemZ320414368437QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item4a9a2f42b5 can any one tell me the out come Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m&mv80 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 im looking into replacing my pto pump with an engine/crankshaft driven one, i am happy with the speed and performance as it is but would like the ability to drive assist, does anyone know what size pump i should be looking for, is it just a case of sizing it the same as my pto one (35cc i believe) or is there an advantage of a bigger or smaller one to match (read as 'get closer to') the wheel speed, im worried of having to smaller pump and having to rev the engine to get the speed of the pump up but have the wheels spinning way to fast, or having a pump thats to big and if i do put to many revs on then have to much flow from the pump, also any good ideas on how to run the pump off the front of the engine would be good, there is not much room in front of the v8, the only way i can see is a toothed belt but any other ideas would be welcomed cheers martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Put your radiator in the back, then run it in front of the crank either solid mounted with a coupling or using a short propshaft. Remember to swap the internals of your pump around Regards Gordon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticbadger Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Marek on here is running a Group 3 pump engine driven on his 110, I'm not sure of the flow, but it does drive the standard MM winch motor pretty quick. He's connected it up to the front of the crank using a manual clutch with Group 3 mounting and a rubber CV coupling - both standard agricultural parts and cheap as chips. If you've got the space it's an excellent setup, but otherwise you can get electromagnetic clutch assemblies designed for use on a belt which could be used with a toothed drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 why not put a 80cc motor http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLOWFIT-HYDRAULIC-MOTOR-80-CC-REV-AMP080ACD_W0QQitemZ250521264022QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item3a543b1f96 with a 89 cc pump http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HYDRAULIC-GEAR-PUMP-GROUP-3-89cc-rev-4-bolt-mount_W0QQitemZ320414368437QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item4a9a2f42b5 can any one tell me the out come Pump displacement times rotational speed of pump gives approximate fluid flow rate. Fluid flow rate divided by motor displacement gives approximate rotational speed of motor. There will be some internal leakage in the pump and motor, which is why I have said approximate in the previous sentence - leakage will increase with pressure and wear. So the speed of the motor will be approximately 1.1 times the speed of the pump (89/80=1.1125). ..., there is not much room in front of the v8, the only way i can see is a toothed belt but any other ideas would be welcomed cheers martin Toothed belts will have problems if muddy water, dirt, stones, etc. get caught in the mesh. I would use Vee or multi-rib belts in preference to tooth belts, but these can slip if operating in water. This is why chain drives are often used. The best solution if you have room is to couple directly to the crank and not use belts or chains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorak_Stan Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 As a carry on from this question does anybody have the Part Numbers for the 12V Soft Start Solenoid Valves Supplied with the Type R ? I have tried contacting first For Offroad (New Suppliers of these Winches) but as of yet have not had a response. thanks Lyndon C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Normally when I've used them in the past first four off road have been really quick at replying to any e-mails, Have you tried ringing them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorak_Stan Posted January 29, 2010 Author Share Posted January 29, 2010 Normally when I've used them in the past first four off road have been really quick at replying to any e-mails, Have you tried ringing them? I've Rung Them Multiple Times, Need To speak to "Pete" the Milemarker expert ! He's returned one call 3 days later and stated he will get back to me with info - but 1 week later still nothing ! Also I think if First Four Off-Road are anything like 4x4Winches.com they will charge "A Premium" for anything they supply ! Lyndon C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 in saying that the gearbox casing for my milemarker was £69.00 including the vat which i thought was reasonable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 The Type R solenoids are made by a firm called Hypro if I remember correctly..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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