s2hotdog Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I am going to fabricate my own bumper for my 90 incorporating a H14 PTO winch I have heard that if the bumper is made not to give or bend that can cause the chassis to buckle ...... I am at the moment just doing RTV's but they are competitive as I found at the weekend at minstead where I bent my standard bumper both sides badly and may move on to winch challenges Looking for your opinions more than anything else ....... I expect they will differ Any photos would also be appreciated Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Steve, a lot of people have differant opinions when it comes to bumpers. However, with a winch the cradle should have only minimal to no flex to prevent damage to the winch and chassis. Most bumpers then build onto the main cradle. Some choose to have smaller, ligher bumpers although I prefer something a little heavier with better bodywork protection. I'll be having a bumper made shortly and I'll be looking at 8+ mm for the cradle and probably 5mm for the outsides. The bullbars will be fabricated from thickwall steel tubing (probably CDS) to ensure it doesn't flatten during tree contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I was very impressed with an ARB one on a Disco - drove repeatedly into an earth bank and didn't bend at all. It looked reasonable to boot. (more than could be said for the disco!) Don't know how easy such a thing is to get in the UK - but I was impressed all the same. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I was very impressed with an ARB one on a Disco - drove repeatedly into an earth bank and didn't bend at all.It looked reasonable to boot. (more than could be said for the disco!) Don't know how easy such a thing is to get in the UK - but I was impressed all the same. Si At the moment I use a defender ARB bumper and it is VERY good. The new one will be a simerlar style but with the winch mounted higher up and further back to improve the approch angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I think the trouble with the ARB ones is that they cost more than the rest of the vehicle?! Look good though, if cost were no object I would probably get one. As Will said the winch mount should NOT flex, mine does a little under high load which worries me, you do not want twisting stresses applied to a highly stressed alloy casting.... like a winch body! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nas90 Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'll be having a bumper made shortly and I'll be looking at 8+ mm for the cradle and probably 5mm for the outsides. 5mm all over will be sufficient. My Southdown bumper is all 5mm thickness, 6 years old plus and never a problem. Too heavy and you will lose ground clearance and put too much weight outside the wheelbase. If you need stronger go for 6mm or better still use some SSAB swedish Domex / Docal, over twice the tensile strength of standard 43A / HR4 material, we have an account with SSAB at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishbosh Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Size isn't everything gents!! Having said that, my Southdown 5mm bumper bent - the bottom of the winch tray (5mm) deformed and I haven't done a double line pull in a long time. The problem is a lack of stiffening - if the rear of the tray had a folded lip I don't think it would have bent. I had to weld in (well Tangoman did ) a 1" thick walled angle toes down in front of the rearmost row of bolts holding the winch in. Even if I say so myself a rather good solution - masses of stiffening and robust too. I am not a fan of ARB bumpers - Yes they look good but they are very heavy and have dangerously weak recovery points. If I was paying £500 - 700 for a bumper I wouldn't expect to immediately do strengthening work to the most important part of it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'll be having a bumper made shortly and I'll be looking at 8+ mm for the cradle and probably 5mm for the outsides. 5mm all over will be sufficient. My Southdown bumper is all 5mm thickness, 6 years old plus and never a problem. Too heavy and you will lose ground clearance and put too much weight outside the wheelbase. If you need stronger go for 6mm or better still use some SSAB swedish Domex / Docal, over twice the tensile strength of standard 43A / HR4 material, we have an account with SSAB at work. The reason for the thickness is because of the winch being fitted to the bumper My ARB is 5mm and, due to the design, is very stiff. However, at twice the power I'll need a VERY robust cradle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 With an H14W you want the central bit in 8mm plate 10mm meaybe for the front, folded top, seam welded. Bolts 0 ok through the chassis but also got further back on the chassis and pick up the holes that go throyugfh, this way you are not bolting such a hugely powerfull winch just on the ends of the chassis, wings for the sides go 5mm or 6mm. Mine is 10mm base (16 bolts !) and 8mm front + gussets, 6mm wings, all seam welded, 15mm plate for the recovery eyes 12.8 Allen bolts, big as you can, and all done up B Tight too ! Do NOT underestimate this winch ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Here's mine Scrapiron Bumper (best thing I did to it ) cut to bits new tray 2x6mm plate sandwitched and folded and seam welded, new 6mm think box section front cross member, front 4 winch m12 bolts mount to the plate on the bumper, the rear 4 bolts mount to the plate/cross member 4 M12 bolts through the chassis legs 2 M12 tie in to the steering guard which bolts through the chassis with another 2 M12 bolts so far it aint moved......even when Pigster hit a tree rather rapidly at Slindon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdicky Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'd look at what the bumper made for the H14 is made of and how it's constructed. I've got a similar winch and bumper (although luckily it doesn't stick out as far as the H14 one) and I don't think any of it is more than 8mm thick (I can't check at the moment). The winch is bolted to the front chassis crossmember as well as the bumper which must add a fair bit of strength. I'd be more worried about bashing the PTO than bending the standard bumper... Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Richard. Good point BUT : Nearly all the H14W bumpers are badly bent and twisted.......... cos they are only 6mm plate..............not even a top fold ! and are hardly ecver used to the level and H14W can be off road........... hence my comments !............. Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdicky Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Fair enough, to be honest I've only seen them in pictures before. I'm certainly not worried about bending my bumper from winching, only hitting banks/trees too hard! Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathtub Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Fair enough, to be honest I've only seen them in pictures before. I'm certainly not worried about bending my bumper from winching, only hitting banks/trees too hard!Richard M.D.F mitre mate & grip fill Oh yer it needs to be water resistant mdf i found that 15mm is fine . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 M.D.F mitre mate & grip fill Oh yer it needs to be water resistant mdf i found that 15mm is fine . Nice and light, easy to work. You could even carve it to whatever shape you wanted. You could be on to something there, bathtub Seriously, I wonder how good a bumper you could make from wood? Say laminated ply rather than MDF. It might actually work, at least for a non-winch bumper. Almost tempted to try it, just for a laugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 SimonR was running round with a piece of 4x2 for a front bumper on his 110 for ages. It looked... interesting. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2hotdog Posted April 18, 2006 Author Share Posted April 18, 2006 Hi and thanks for all the replies Les B the photos are great ...... yours is a pto set up? I seem to remember....... got any photos of how and where you attach the drive shafts to winch? The superwinch manual says minimum of 6mm plate to mount it on My thinking is 10 mm base with 8 mm plates to sides and front bolted to chassis to form a nice ridged box to help stiffen the chassis picking up the 2 no m10 bolts on top and drilling through chassis with a couple of M16 bolts also incorperating a ali steering guard Am thinking of cutting/notching some holes to help get rid of the muck etc Also to set the winch back as far and as high as possible ............ cut/shape the front crossmember also form a hole using a stiffened tube for the shaft/uj to pass through On the outside use tubing similar to Les's welded to thinner plate say 4mm so they will give/bend when smashing against trees or similar to prevent any damage to the chassis Only my thoughts........... Cheers Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I have to say, as Charles mentioned, save the weight with your masses of 25mm plate and put folds, gussets and stiffeners in to give the strength in a more 'elegant' way. Nigel's bumper will never bend but if his car used sensible plate it wouldn't be so heavy and he could just drive around like everyone else <Wanted - tin hat. Can collect, must be available for quick sale> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 <Wanted - tin hat. Can collect, must be available for quick sale> Must have plenty of folding, gusseting and stiffening (or failing that, be at least 8mm thick) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSN Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I have been following this thread with interest as I am looking at some point to modify my bumper. Currently got the old Rapier 8274 bumper and winch which sticks out too much. I have noticed the cradle is separate to the bolted on 'arms'. Therefore thought I might look to try and reposition the cradle further back then weld on some HD arms. I think you can buy the HD arms already bent but not welded from Southdown or was it someone else? White90 had 1 in his garage I think so hopefully he can confirm availability. Might make things a little quicker and easier. Well will see what else comes up as ideas. Cheers for now. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathtub Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I have to say, as Charles mentioned, save the weight with your masses of 25mm plate and put folds, gussets and stiffeners in to give the strength in a more 'elegant' way. Nigel's bumper will never bend but if his car used sensible plate it wouldn't be so heavy and he could just drive around like everyone else <Wanted - tin hat. Can collect, must be available for quick sale> Is it me or is GUSSET a nice word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 Is it me or is GUSSET a nice word It is, a bit like "flange" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 all gussets need deep penetration to be any good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I love it when you talk dirty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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