nmayhew Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 hello and Happy new Year to everyone. I have a RR 4.6 Vogue (2000, W plate) on New Year's Eve i got warning lights and alarm "EAS Failure" and "Max Speed 35mph" this comes against a background of airbag leaks - the car would lean heavily one side when parked, but when driving it was fine. after the alrm, the ride became extremely harsh and it now sits pretty much as low as it can get, and suspension is non-existant. two questions: 1. is the car ok to drive "to the station and back" if i keep below 35mph? 2. assuming 3 airbags and maybe the compressor need replacing, what is the ball park cost of this repair? (local garage, not LR approved) given i spent £2000 on repairs in June, i am inclined to spend a grand getting a banger / runaround for a year, and drop the Range Rover altogether as the cost is just crushing us. any thoughts or advice much appreciated. thanks, Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Yes,its safe to drive to the station,avoid all bumps that you can - your kidneys will thank you ! Is it worth repairing ? That is a very common question,at 10 years old you have a large 4wd with a suspension system that very likely needs 4 air springs,4 height sensors and a new or rebuilt compressor.That all adds up to a fair bit in parts,the labour is not much.The answer is what the car is worth to you ? What does it do that cant be done with a cheaper car,how much towing/off road work does it do ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vougese39 Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 or look at it the other way the springs are made of rubber and wear out anything over 10 years on original parts is dam good! me personaly you can either pick a set of springs off ebay and a comp overhaul kit and have a bash yourself or get sombody else to do it for you. ask to have the suspension recalibrated once they have changed the bags if all goes well it will save you having the height sensors being changed for the mean time. depending on the garage budget for around 2-4 hours at there lab rate and the parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted January 2, 2010 Author Share Posted January 2, 2010 thank you very much Ally i'm going to give it a "whirl" round the village tomorrow and see what it's like, although avoiding bumps might be tricky: we live down a farm track! as to "needing" it, well we sure did when it snowed (anything 2 wheel drive was a no-go where we are) but apart from 4 or 5 days a year, normal cars will suffice. i know it's sacrelige to say, but i reckon my next 4wd is going to be a Toyota - pretty much all the gamekeeper types locally drive Hi-Lux, and i know they don't do it for the image! anyway, thank you again for your help - much appreciated. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Easy DIY job. 4 new airsprings with pins and clips, a compressor overhaul kit. Axlestands, jack, a weekend, and the car will be on the road again. However you will need diagnostics to erase the fault in the ECU memory, but that can be downloaded from the internet and a cable bought from Ebay/ made yourself. Have a read on Rangerovers.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 Voguese and QRover thank you also for your input i think you are slightly overestimating my mechanical abilities! i have changed a tyre once and generally for me doing something to the car means adding more screen wash!! however, it was very useful to realised probably what will be done to the car when i take it in for repair one day i would like to be able to do a few basic things to a car and work from there (i am ok with joinery now and started a few years ago from scratch), but given lack of time and also budget for tools to "play" with, it will have to wait. i also wonder whether a simpler car might be a better place to start? either way, thank you all for your help, and i'll let you know how our kidneys get on when i take it out for a test drive later today. cheers Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 I hesitate to suggest this as it will spoil the ride in a big way - and you will need to notify your insurers as the vehicle would be modified - but this is another option. Note that if your problem is just airbag(s) then conversion may not be the cheapest option! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Range-Rover-P38-Air-Spring-To-Coil-Conversion-Kit-NEW_W0QQitemZ270509093718QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3efb993356 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 wow - yet more things i had no idea existed! out of interest, do i take it that this conversion means you only have one ride height, and that you no longer go lower at high speed, or have the ability to raise it ford rocks / river beds etc? ...not that i have ever contemplated the latter, like you never guessed! would this make the ride less "boaty"? and is it a case of buy this set then get someone to fit it? PS took the car for a drive today - harsh on road but ok, but our lane / farm track was hilariously bumpy to the point where me and the missus laughed so much our sides began to hurt!! cheers again, Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vougese39 Posted January 3, 2010 Share Posted January 3, 2010 as for the boaty ride this is proberly due to the suspension system being worn as the springs have become hard and proberly have worn shocks as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted January 3, 2010 Author Share Posted January 3, 2010 thinking about it, the ride prior to the failure was far more boaty than i remember it being when i first got the car... as to the cost of all this, i know that when i had it serviced in June they said i had leaks in 3 airbags, and i am assuming that i also now need a new compressor and looking at 4 airbags AND a new compressor, the cheaper option is going for the coil spring conversion right? if this is the case i will ask a small independent mechanic if he can fit this for me (as i said before, a DIY job is not an option). thanks, Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 For the £400 of that coil conversion i'd be fitting some new airbags (they're only 60-70quid ea on ebay) and a used good compressor. IF the compressor has failed, its likely due to it running for far too long due to the leaking bags. The compressor only has a 15% duty cycle IIRC, so if the bags are leaking and its having to run constantly to keep bags inflated it will fail. You might even find that theres nothing wrong with the compressor, but that the leaking bags have caused the ECU to go into hard fault mode, so fitting new bags and reading/resetting the codes will have it all working again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally V8 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 "Good" and "Used compressor" are not happy together in the same sentence."suitable for rebuilding" is more like it for a secondhand unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 Plenty P38's with working air suspension will find themselves in the scrapyard with engine troubles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted January 4, 2010 Author Share Posted January 4, 2010 ok not quite sure what you guys are saying, but for me £400 plus labour to have no more suspension troubles period seems a good trade the car will be scrap before the coils fail, no? (i do not off road etc etc) also, it's crazy that Guy Salmon were charging me nearly £200 (i seem to remember) per airbag... anyway, the car goes to the garage for a look tomorrow and we'll see what he says... thanks again, Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 That's the problem with not being able to DIY with Range Rovers & main dealers charge ridiculous money! As you've gone into hard fault you will need a reset after replacing the failed items if you stay with air. Coils as you suspect does mean no adjustment to the suspension so it will stay at one height. As I said earlier, you may be disappointed with the ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 While there is every chance you need airbags etc... it's also more than possible for you to have an air leak somewhere. If you have a blowing exhaust then that is almost certainly the case, especially if it's a diesel. The hot gasses escaping from the silencer melt the airline above it leading to complete failure of the EAS. I've seen vehicles come in with complete EAS failures and drive back out 10 mins later after doing nothing more than replacing a melted section of tube with a tube connector and strapping a patch over the silencer while a new one is put on order. I'd advise against running around on the bump stops for anything more than driving it to a garage to get it looked at. It's designed as a "get you home" nothing more. Like a lot of these things it won't get any better on it's own and it'll almost certainly cause more damage the longer you leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 That's the problem with not being able to DIY with Range Rovers & main dealers charge ridiculous money! As you've gone into hard fault you will need a reset after replacing the failed items if you stay with air. Coils as you suspect does mean no adjustment to the suspension so it will stay at one height. As I said earlier, you may be disappointed with the ride. There is no problem DIY'ing a P38 Range Rover. There are now a plethora of diagnostic tools available, everything from EAS free download software, to complete diagnostics for about £500. It's simply another tool that should be considered for your toolbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nmayhew Posted January 5, 2010 Author Share Posted January 5, 2010 hello again, just a little bit more info: the past 2 times i have turned off the engine after a short journey the suspension has gone into max lift mode either on the front or the back and just stayed there with the engine off. as soon as i restarted engine for a new journey, it self-levelled back to the lowest of the low setting, so maybe the compressor isn't toast after all?? anyway, it's with the garage at the moment so i should have news later. if a competent mechanic is doing it, how many hours labour do you think it should take to fit the coil spring conversion btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Airbag replacement is not a big job needing loads of tools! A flat concrete base. A good jack, (in your toolkit) and a few good blocks of wood, (you did mention joinery), to block up the chassis. Do one wheel at a time. Make sure the supports are safe. Enthusiasts have been known to change a bag during an off road trip. It a good idea to get a garage pressure wash underneath to remove the mud , then wash under the arches again with a hose when you get home. Go indoors and leave it overnight to dry out. Get a glass of your favourite tipple and switch on the internet. Google P38 airbag, you will find loads of information. Then type Range rover p38 on Ebay UK , you will find 100's of second hand and new parts listed. Most P38 expire from blown engines, and a dead car will yield loads of useable bits. Next free day get a good lead lamp or torch and crawl under the car, examine the bits and you will find the bags and shocks are held on with just a few fixings Soak all the pins and nuts you can find with WD 40. Ist job is to remove the plastic arch liner ofyour first wheel, not difficult, try not to break the fixings. You will need a strong pair of pliers or grips to remove the clips. WD40 is essential. A trip to Halfords for a basic metric socket set is worthwhile. A few rags to clean things up. A good pair of leather workgloves to protect your knuckles plus some latex gloves to keep your nails good on the fiddly bits. Get a bottle of washing up liquid from the kitchen and mix it up 50/50 with water in a kitchen spray trigger pump. Start the engine and lift the bonnet you should hear the compressor rattling away inside the passenger side wing. Close the bonnet and doors,set the body to high and the body may lift up if your last post is right. Spray the liquid onto the bags and pipes and look for bubbles. Make a note of the places you find leaks. Jack up no 1 wheel and securely block the chassis and transfer your jack to support the axle, drop the suspension to access and let the air out of the bag (Quick solution, wear eye protection goggles, and slash a sharp stanley knife through the bag or cut off the hose next to where it goes into the bag, crude but effective.) Lower the axle on the jack and take things apart. Expect to take a couple of hours on the first corner, the next one will be quicker. By the sound of your last post the pump is not toasted yet. Buy a set of shocks at the same time as the bags fitting them is no big deal either, confidence is your best tool. Get some new clips then you can be brutal with the old rust ones. When you have finished, Ebay a second hand compressor when you get it buy the bits to recondition it. The compressor is easy to strip,a couple of hours on the kitchen table will see your compressor ready to go when the original gives up. You will need a set of Allen keys. The pump is fitted with a plastic piston ring, this is usually worn out, if it has gone too far the cylinder will be scored. A new cylinder, ring and O rings can be bought from P38 spares also on Ebay. A set of bags, clips, shocks, a suspension reset jogger and the odd tools will not cost anything like the dealer price for doing the basic work. A P38 has always cost a fortune to maintain at the main dealers but you do not need to pay list price for the bits. Keep the car going by sourcing from Ebay and /or using your local garage to do the dirty work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Re my last post, I did not add such obvious things such as remove wheel etc or the post would have been too long! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 For the wheel arc liners you might as well buy some new plastic rivets as they only cost pennies and you will break some. Better to use axle stands than blocks of wood. Otherwise the rears, are more difficult than the fronts due to the chassisrails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 There is no problem DIY'ing a P38 Range Rover. There are now a plethora of diagnostic tools available, everything from EAS free download software, to complete diagnostics for about £500. It's simply another tool that should be considered for your toolbox. I never said there was. The OP said that due to a number of factors mentioned in his posts he doesn't DIY. It's that - and the fact that as a result he is in the hands of the garage bill wise - that is the problem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q-rover Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I never said there was. The OP said that due to a number of factors mentioned in his posts he doesn't DIY. It's that - and the fact that as a result he is in the hands of the garage bill wise - that is the problem here. But that is true whether you have SI or a P38. The option to DIY is there for both, if you choose a main dealer or independant, it will cost you more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.