Logic Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Hi Folks I've had an insurance quote from the NFU for my 1999 TD5 90 but due to having some minor modifications they are saying I require an engineers report first. I believe in coming clean with all modifications, as a policy is only cheap until you need to claim on it, but I'm only talking about various chequerplate, Disco alloys, GKN Overdrive, A-Bar & Spots, Soft Top with army style roll bar, and the MudStuff bulkhead removal bar - hardly what I would call modifications in need of an engineers report (ok, maybe a bulkhead removal bar and roll bar?). Other than the overdrive, the suspension and drivetrain are standard. Anyway, is this engineers report a usual occurrence for slight mods? Does anyone know what one of these reports entails? I'm told my local MOT garage can do this, but is it something that garages try to avoid? I know I can go with another policy, but NFU are quoting for any over 25 driver which really is handy for me, the others I've tried will only do named drivers. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8CAMEL Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 i would have thought the bulkhead removal would constitute a major modification. Removing manufaturers structure which was there for a reason. Not doubting the quality of the replacement part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martifers Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 Would have to agree with camel there on the bulkhead removal, about removing a manufacturers structural part. But the only things they wanted to know about were structural modifications as above and performance modifications (engine wise) when i took out my policy. I am with NFU, they just paid out after I rolled my TD5. Had to fight for the correct pay out value due to modifications I had, but sorted in the end. They will just want the engineer to confirm that the modifications are not detremental to the vehicle. They may want to check the soft top with roll bar especially if you are carrying passengers in rear and this would also add risk to the risk of theft but the only things that would be covered in the engineers report would be structural so I don't understand them questioning the A-bar, spotlights, alloys etc if that is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted January 13, 2010 Share Posted January 13, 2010 i am with the NFU. a long time back when i did an engine change on a 110 they wanted an engineers report. I wrote out a letter specifing what they wanted to hear - road legal, structural integrity etc, (i got them to tell me what they wanted) i then took the letter to my local LR specialist and asked them to check the conversion and sign the letter. it cost me £15 for the chaps time and that was it done. On the 3 engine changes i have done since then i have always just sent a copy of a new MOT completed post the engine change when i write to inform them of the engine change and mention an engrs report is available if they want it. they havent to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted January 14, 2010 Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Hi Folks Thanks for the replies. They haven't mentioned what it is that concerns them making them ask for a report, but you've a fair point on the bulkhead bar being structural/major. Also, I'm using the roll bar as seatbelt mounting points which could be a concern to them. It appears this is a pretty standard thing to be asked then so that's fine, and it wouldn't do any harm getting the changes checked over by an independent anyway even for peace of minds sake. Do NFU send a standard form for this report, or does the garage just write a letter confirming (hopefully) their satisfaction all mods are ok? Thanks again for all your inputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Call me a cynic but in most cases they are looking to put a letter in a file and tick a box. Your potential additional risk is that the soft top, modified seat belt mounts and bulkhead removal may make the vehicle more unsafe in a collision. But anyone looking at it can only say that it looks well fabricated or not. They can't comment on how your bulkhead replacement bar would perform in a accident, being more rigid may be more dangerous. Likewise your upper seatbelt mount is now more rigid than it was and may not move with the seat base in a serious accident, decapitating the occupant. You'd need some serious computer time to assess this which wouldn't be done. In my only experience of this, a letter from an MOT inspector saying that the work looked to a reasonable standard was OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Call me a cynic but in most cases they are looking to put a letter in a file and tick a box. an engineers report ...... I'm told my local MOT garage can do this How many MOT stations employ Engineers? Do the NFU stipulate which kind of Engineer they require to make the report? This part of the Insurance system sucks even more than the rest of it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacey Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I had to do one when I was insured with AXA. I went to my local landy garage. Got to the effect of, yeah all looks ok written on headed paper. As long as the engineer has either a formal mechanical qualification or time served then they can do one. The whole process is purely a paper one so the buck can be passed on in the even the stupid gene kicks in and you have accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean f Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I have had to get an engineers report in the past for a shortened and space framed range rover, difficult to argue against the need (this was pre SVA times) and the local garage wrote one out, as said basically it looks OK and seems to have been done to a reasonable standard was the gist of it. As has been said most mechanics, even MOT testers really aren't able to make a full engineering assesment and to do it would require a lot of time and work, all they can reasonable do is state it doesn't appear to have made the vehicle worse than it was in standard form. I think what they are mainly trying to do is filter out the truely awfull home brewed conversions which may not actually fail an MOT but really shouldn't be on the road so no one is going to want to put there name on an engineering report for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Ask the NFU office for there preferred list of vehicle inspection engineers, or request they make the appointment for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I wrote out a letter specifing what they wanted to hear - road legal, structural integrity etc, (i got them to tell me what they wanted) I went to my local landy garage. Got to the effect of, yeah all looks ok written on headed paper. the local garage wrote one out, as said basically it looks OK and seems to have been done to a reasonable standard was the gist of it. in repsonse to your last post it would seem there is no preferred form or list to do, just make a letter up for them along the lines of above. (as per the 3 posts above) Ask the NFU office for there preferred list of vehicle inspection engineers, or request they make the appointment for you. Probably the right way to do but could open a whole can of worms! and be very spendy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I had to do this years ago for Adrian Flux when I put a Lumenition on the 2.25 lump in my lightweight. Went to the local garage in Stoke Newington, he looked at it for 30 seconds and wrote three lines on a piece of letterhead paper and I gave him £10. Seemed to do the trick then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 When I restored my 88" and stuck a V8 in it an engineer's report was required. All I got from my local LR specialist was a one-liner on their headed paper stating that the modifications had been carried out to a good and safe standard. The insurers were perfectly happy with this. Before issueing this however, they did ask me a fix a couple of minor issues, one of which was to fit dual circuit brakes rather than run with the standard single circuit. They spent half an hour looking over and under it and must have been looking with open eyes and mind to spot what they did. They also took it for a short drive, you can tell a lot more by driving something. Money well spent IMO. As for your Td5 soft top, I wouldn't be surprised to hear they increased the premium due to the reduced vehicle security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litch Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I had to get an engineers report in the past and it was no problem at all, my local garage / MOT station did it and the insurer was more than happy. I contacted NFU a year or so ago for a quote and was put off not by the fact they wanted an engineers report (as I know that is no problem to obtain) but just because of the hassle getting them the information that they alone require. My ex-MOD 90 has been fitted with a LR Genuine Parts 300TDi re-power kit and is to all intents & puroposes exactly the same spec as a late 300TDi Defender (even down to the brakes etc) and NFU didn't just want an engineers report but also full details of both the old engine/gearbox etc (engine/gearbox types, power output etc) and then the comparable information for the new set up. Ok, I could have obtained all this information in a very short space of time but I don't pay much for my agreed valuation policy with Lancaster and by the time I had paid for the report I would probably have been out of pocket and I really couldn't be bothered with the added hassle. No other insurer I got a quote from wanted all this information, I just listed the modifcations and they came back with a quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martifers Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I'm not really too bothered if my insurer does require extra checks or is thorough to a point. If by doing so, that keeps out the vehicles that have had home-made or so-called professional bodge job modifications that shouldn't realy be on the road anyway, away from claiming then thats good in my books. If my premium is slightly lower bcause of it, then that suits me fine.... Main reason i went with NFU is the personal touch. And in my experience are so friendly and really are there to help. I hope you do go through the riggers of the report process as i'm sure you will have a faultless and pleasurable... if possible insurance expeirence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 An engineers report is generally not worth the paper it's written on - how many MOT testers, or even VOSA/SVA testers are actually qualified to judge the quality of a modification or other engineering? Would you trust an SVA inspector to distinguish a good roll cage from one that'll kill you? All they can really say is it's got no sharp edges and things like welding look OK. None of that rubbish would ever stand up in court. I know at least one person who asked what they defined an engineer as and ended up writing his own report I've never had to get a report on any mods, I'd have thought if they are happy for an MOT tester to sign it off then the fact it has an MOT on it in the first place should be good enough for them Rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martifers Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I would agree with you fridge but isn't that the same with some MOT's? As for the MOT what sort of modifiactions would be checked by the MOT tester? Even though it may not be worth the paper it's written on I would still rather someone checked it than no-one at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 So why do they need a report from an MOT inspector when they can see your car has an MOT, just seems pointless. None of my insurers have ever asked for an engineer's report on anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martifers Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 So why do they need a report from an MOT inspector when they can see your car has an MOT, just seems pointless. None of my insurers have ever asked for an engineer's report on anything. Only reason I can really thick of is if there was a time lapse between when the vehicle was last MOT'd and when the modification was fitted before insurance was required... Am I right in assuming that 'most' structural modifications do not nessitate a re-MOT but do require notification for insurance purposes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Nothing structural has been modified though - even the bulkhead removal bar is not anything that would be of concern in an MOT or SVA as the body of a Land Rover is pretty much decoration only, it's things like chassis mods they worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Interestingly the chap who does my MOTs recently went on a training course. They were shown a picture of a Land Rover chassis, broken in the gearbox area and asked if it was a pass or fail. Apparently it's a pass with advisory as it was far enough from any mounting points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 I always use this company for my engineers reports. They really really know there stuff. And their word is cast iron with the insurence companys, if they say it's worth 10k and it's insured on the basis of their report you will get paid out the 10k. I consider a proper report, a signed, stamped get out of jail free card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neildon Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Obviously I dont know how good your quote is from NFU (and thats not the reason for the thread I know but...)but when I spoke to them about changing my engine from petrol to diesel they were not interested. However Adrian flux were only too happy to oblige and their quote was less with all my mods ( including brake upgrade, suspension upgrade, guaranteed value and full engine swap etc) than i was originally paying another company without the mods....so maybe they wouldnt need a report, just a list of the mods. Just my tuppence worth Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 When dealing with the NFU, I've found it's best to visit the nearest local agents office, instead of dealing with head office or online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Where are you? I'd be happy to do an engineers report in return for a forum donation. (Assuming it meets my critical standards of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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