Heated Washer Jets

[EdF]

I've made a couple of long trips in my 90 in the depths of winter and no matter how strong the concentration of water to washer antifreeze, the jets ALWAYS freeze up. I've often had to stop every couple of miles to clear the screen by hand. No joke on a long trip. My solution last week was, as before, to have an old fashioned washing-up liquid bottle (NOT a trigger type) full of water and washer antifreeze, wind down the window and squirt it around the 'A' post onto the screen. Okay until I banged the bottle off the mirror and dropped it on a busy dual carriageway. As the washer pipes are mostly inside the bulkhead, and it would be difficult, if not impossible to replace the jets with those from another make, I think the answer may be to put heated jets on the bonnet and run new pipes to them.. I did a web search for heated jets a couple of years ago with no luck, and after a bad journey to Edinburgh with loads of filthy spray being thrown up, the time has come for something better. I've just found a Ford Mondeo (sorry for swearing) DIY site which shows Ford units. http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/HowDoI/EasyMods.html# Look at second link. You don't really need it, as here's the text with the part nos.

Adding Heated Windscreen Washer Jets

Easy

Required Tools: Soldering iron, Wire, Volt meter

Time Required: 1 hour

Cost: £12.70(part number 6747267 X 2, £6.35 each from Ford)

Another very easy Mod, although you will need to do some wiring. If you mix your windscreen wash fluid correctly it shouldn't freeze until about -15 degrees, but often you will find that its squirts for a while and then stops. This is normally because it freezes as it leaves the squirter jets. The solution is to replace yours with heated units off of a car that has them or buy them from Ford.

Now My car didn't have any wiring for these so I had to do it myself. I cut off the plug at the bottom of each squirter and made up my own loom. A wired (Soldered) from a good earth (Bonnet earth strap) to the first wire, then wired the remaining squirter wire to one of the wires on the next unit, and finally wired the remaining wire to a 12V positive supply controlled by the rear heater relay, so the squirter heaters are on only when the rear window/mirror heater circuits are on. I have seen that pre-fitted Mondy's the supply to the Squirters is a ignition fed 12V. ie they are on all the time, they only get warm and not hot so this is fine.

I think I'd prefer to have a switch in the wiring.

Hope this gives someone hope of seeing the road again in the winter.

[TheHarv]

Hmm I really don't understand why you chaps over there are having this issue

The only thing I could think was maybe it is melt water off the screen getting sucked back IN and freezing rather than the washer fluid itself - is there a one-way / anti drain back valve between the pump and the jets? if not has anyone tried fitting one? 

[FridgeFreezer]

Anti drain-back valves are off the shelf in Hafrauds. We did Bulgaria & back at Christmas, it hit -20 overnight but with decent screenwash (rated to -40) it wasn't a problem once we'd flushed through the weak stuff remaining in the bottle from the UK.

[Ex Member]

Hmm I really don't understand why you chaps over there are having this issue

The only thing I could think was maybe it is melt water off the screen getting sucked back IN and freezing rather than the washer fluid itself - is there a one-way / anti drain back valve between the pump and the jets? if not has anyone tried fitting one? 

They do not use proper washer fluid. THAT is the problem.

[callum]

indeed, its just a case of getting the right washer fluid. Using normal fluid available here is quite expensive as you have to put in the fluid neat, which folk are not used to doing (the standard halfords stuff is only good to -20 neat, although the coldest temperature ever recorded here is -27, so it doesn't get that low very often). i imagine in colder climes, much more concentrated fluid is available making it a bit more economical, 50/50 mix i presume. i had trouble with freezing washers, which persisted until i could get the neat fluid through the frozen lines. defrosting the lines in the engine bay was easy enough, but a kettle of hot water is not so welcome behind the dash.

I presume better concentrates are available from motor factors at a better price, so it might be worth finding some and buying a decent amount for next winter.

[Ex Member]

To understand....

The cheap stuff here is good to -35 and costs around $2 per 4 liters. The nice stuff is good to -45 (some even lower) and costs around $3 for 4 liters. Nobody ever puts any water in the washer system, ever. I'm guessing I buy 20 bottles a year for all the cars......

I've never heard of anyone freezing a washer and -40 happens.

[Litch]

The stuff I use is aboutt £3.50 / 5-Litres at Costco and is good down to something like -28 degrees. Although I have never used the vehicle below about -12 degrees I have never had a problem even though I DO dilute it.

[PaulN]

For those of us in the UK (without a Business or Trade Card) - where can one get the 'Decent' stuff and at what price?

[callum]

things are getting bad when the chat goes to washer fluid.

anyway, for comparison, the average joe will get some of this. http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_storeId_10001_catalogId_10151_productId_217418_langId_-1_categoryId_229902#dtab

so about £1 a litre. its considered a concentrate here, hence the outlandish claims of makes 100 litres if you mix with water. In truth i think its good to -23 so it just gets added straight from the bottle without mixing.

a touch more pricey than canada, but then you're paying a bit of a premium getting it from halfords.

you can get more concentrated stuff reaonsbly easily which you would mix 50/50 to get about the same performance, but it would be a cheaper way of doing it.

to be honest though, such temperatures are not that common in most of the uk on account of being an island amidst seas. in the middle bits of scotland it more frequently gets pretty cold, but not for weeks or months at a time. As such, folks are not in the habit of putting in more concentrated fluid as its not normally necessary. i felt a bit silly firing the halfords green goo at my windscreen last week when driving along the motorway as it was quite a bit above freezing. most of the year i just chuck water in the washers.

[Ex Member]

-23? That is the stuff we use in the summer!!! Water is miserable for cleaning windscreens.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST%2Fbrowse%2F4%2FAuto%2F3%2FAutoFluidsChemicals%2FWindshieldWasherFluid%2FPRD%7E0294160P%2FOEM%252BSummer%252BWindshield%252BWasher%252BFluid.jsp

[pongo]

Thanks for the link. The price difference is significant. A couple of dollars for 5L? You can afford to use it neat. Looks like we are being overcharged in the UK. How surprising!

[Ex Member]

Yes, someone over there is make an excessive profit.

[EdF]

I hear what you guys are saying, but on my last trip south on January 9th, on the A9 Inverness to Perth EVERY lay-by and pull-in had vehicles in them with drivers cleaning their screens. Not just me, were they ALL using cheapo washer antifreeze??

[Ex Member]

Yes. I have never in my life in Canada heard of someone freezing a washer nozzle. It gets a lot colder here than you guys have in your worst nightmares.

[cackshifter]

Used to add some methylated spirit to washers in winter to lower freezing point. Apart from turning the tubing purple it seemed to have no serious side effects. Probably banned/taxed these days.

Nigel

[Ex Member]

That is what the washer fluid is made from...methanol and water.

[callum]

burns well.

yes ed, all these people had insufficient washer fluid. i was in a halfords today and they had a big washer fluid crate out front. Sufficient to -4 or the more expensive stuff, sufficient to -6. (should maybe just have read insufficient) a good number of folk will put that sort of stuff in their washer bottle and unsurprisingly it freezes when its colder than that. good for most of the year, but december, january february, it will freeze at some point.

i think this is amusing our canadian friend somewhat. what's the temperature in the calgary vicinity at the moment john?

[Guest wunntenn]

Does the temp rating of the washer fluid take account of the wind chill factor? It might be -2 ambient but with a 60 mph wind in your screen it'll be a lot lower than that surely?

[LandyManLuke]

Wind chill? how can a washer jet get windchill?!

[Snagger]

My 1995 RR Classic has heated front screen washer jets, thbough the rear screen and headlamp jets are not heated. They're on the same circuit as the rear screen and wing mirror heaters. LR obviously saw a need for it on their premium vehicles.

I think the problem is the same as the rest of our winter driving woes - the weather is usually so mild that no-one is prepared, from the government, through the motor industry and down to the individual drivers, for the really bad weather. Decent quality screen wash simply isn't commonly available here, and where it can be found, it's unreasonably expensive. Even if it was cheap, so many drivers never check their fluids levels, bulbs or tyres that I doubt anything would change. We don't have enough severe weather to shake the nation out of its complacent and apathetic mentality.

[EdF]

I suspect that it IS windchill, as the mixture I'm using should more than cope with the static freezing temps but the jets still froze. Not just humans are affected by windchill.. Just found a chart on Wikipaedia and -5C becomes -40C in a 60mph wind, or at 60mph - same difference I suppose. I will try to get better washer additive, maybe at 100% for starters before I tackle the heated jets..

[LandyManLuke]

Windchill is a human experience, it only 'feels' colder.

With the washer jets, the 'wind' from driving will remove the heating effect from the engine and cab, which at standstill would heat the pipes, jets etc. 'Windchill' would not, however, lower the temperature below ambient.

[errol209]

Windchill is a human experience, it only 'feels' colder.

With the washer jets, the 'wind' from driving will remove the heating effect from the engine and cab, which at standstill would heat the pipes, jets etc. 'Windchill' would not, however, lower the temperature below ambient.

Agree: the rate of heat disipation is more rapid in moving air than still air, so the rate at which your warmed washer fluid gets back down to ambient in the washer jet will be faster at 60mph than when stationary.

[Snagger]

Wind chill is the additional cooling by airflow of an object warmer than the ambient atmosphere. Since the washer fluid is not heated, it cannot suffer from wind chill, regardless of wind speeds or vehicle speed. Your engine and radiator use wind chill to cool them, and the cabin suffers wind chill when you're trying to keep it war min the winter, and wind chill helps cool it in summer where direct insolation has warmed the car to a higher temperature than the surrounding air. Your washer fluid will still be at ambient temperatures and will not be affected by airlfow.

[Mo Murphy]

If one were to buy some of the -6 fluid mentioned above, say a 5 litre can, how much meths would one have to add to make it -40 capable like the Canadian stuff ?

Mo