Gon2far Vs Scorpion Extreme Suspension

[Aubrey]

Been looking at the Scorpion Extreme suspension and I like the rear. Front is better than std but still retains close to std. swing arm setup so not as much travel as a true 3 link in front. Good quality gas shox ....... around GBP 1800

Then I saw the Gon2 far 3 link setup ..... 24 inch in front and 26 inches at the rear .... around GBP 2400.

Heart is set on the Gone2far setup but any feedback on pro's and con's would be welcome.

Aubrey

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

I have seen and looked closely at the extreme kit in action.

It is impressive,......very impressive..... but thats about all it is.

On the road it is lethal,the handling at high speed is something I never want to experice again, try asking your insurers to insure it !

In fairness tho, most lifted modified 4x4s have altered handling - this is however er....exterme

IMHO I also think quality of some of the kit is questionale - springs are legendary for sagging and the front welded up arms ??

In terms of the performance of the extreme kit the front to rear axles are not even near balanced in terms of travel.

Theres the arguement of an axle just "Sitting" on the ground with the suspension dislocated has no real grip hence no real drive for the rest of the truck.

And the fact it just keeps dislocating at the rear means I have seen one of these on a side slope and everyone thought if he carried on it would roll......

he stooped thank F

However, it is a complete bolt on kit, and has some merit, but the price is 'not exactly' cheap.

Gon2Far system ??

is IMHO nicer, more balanced, better made and impressive too.

3 Link (of anyones build) makes for "Interesting road use", but again IMHO even with the thoughts and plans I have in place I'll never match any 3 link front end, but I hope to compromise (everything is in this arguement) and have really good movement - poss as much as I can get from mods without going 3 link -

I may yet, so G2Fs 3 link ?...very nice, better than most, but just accept its going to handle the way it does

Nothing you can do about that - its the compromise of going 3 link....

The rear is equally differnt, lots of thought, cones on the bottom etc ..

This has advatnages too, the spring is likely to line up better on re-entry, cones on the chassis (top) mean the spring comes in more of an angle and hence the noises...

Downside ?

If you are in deep mud, heavy articulation, and winching its possible the spring hanging down might get pulled off easier than if it was on the chassis, as more force on it....but..its a maybe and an extreme situation....

The other thought would be the shocks on the inside of the rear chassis rails prob offer less damping than on the outside, again accept and just live with it...

Of the 2 I wouldn't buy the extreme ever..., EVO maybe.... but never the extreme, I would always go for the G2F, and for a 3 link its prob one of the nicer units about.

Oh, and thats not even taking account of the "Attitude" and "Helpfulness of the 2 firms in Q.....

G2F - everso friendly helpful and intersted........................ <ahem>.......

Well, that my personal thoughts (for whatever they are worth), and I'm trying my plans 1st, if I really wnat more then its going to have to be a 3 link, and if I go that route there is only 1 system I would buy and thats G2Fs...., just not 100% convinced on the rear - but again only on road use...

Nige

[Mark90]

This has advatnages too, the spring is likely to line up better on re-entry, cones on the chassis (top) mean the spring comes in more of an angle and hence the noises...

Surely the angle between the chassis and axle is not affeted by where the spring is attached so how can the angle of re-location be affected by here the spring is attached?

Yes you get less noise with the spring dis-locating at the bottom, but I don't belive it's due to angles, I think this is beacuse the noise is due to the spring catching on the lip on the upper spring seat and then you get a bang/twang as it re-seats. You don't get this with a dis-locating bottom end as there is no up turned lip on the lower spring seat.

[Aubrey]

Thanx for the feedback so far .......please don't hesitate to add a pence or two worth ....flying this stuff all the way to Africa to find out I was wrong ...... been proven to induce instant humor failure in SWMBO

I have the Scorpion Racing Evo II on my 2.8i 90. Extreme kits as mentioned has very long. soft springs and will make for interesting behaviour. Also, front articulation is limited by twin arm setup and flex in bushes ...more travel at rear than front.

Gone2Far has stock 2 inch lift but extra bits on 3rd link balances rear and front articulation beter. 3 link front will make excellent articulation but does compromise on-road handling.

In all fairness, I have dealt with Colin at Scorpion and a little with Nigel at Gon2far ....both have been very helpfull and always willing to discuss my needs.

AS for mud ....boet, this is Africa. Other day a 17 year old fainted when suddenly caught in a drizzle. Had to pour two bucket of dry sand over him to revive him B) (Meaning mud is not a major concern at any time)

[ogwi]

I got my system (non 3-link) for under a grand from Challenger4x4, Farnborough (Hants). It includes 2" lift springs, dis/re-location cones, extended pro-comp shocks drop shock mounts, updated front turrets, cranked trailing arms and longer braided brake hoses. It might not be the prettiest, but works great. I think they are also woking on a 3-link front set-up

I agree with Hybrid-f-h about the questionable usefulness of the springs dropping miles off their mounts - as you tip over the weight will shift more and more onto the "down" side, leaving little weight on the dislocated side resulting in that wheel will give little drive, if any.

I also agree with Mark90, I can't see how having the springs fixed at the top can possibly change the relocation agle, but it could be quieter.

I will be adding castor-corrected radius arms at some point, but couldn't afford it all together.

In summary, you can get the same results much cheaper! If you've got the moey to burn, spend it on the biggest, most expensive tyres you can get

This is the only picture I have of mine showing axle articulation at the mo (not a lot, I know), but it goes way beyond and has, so far, always reseated nicely. (BTW, that's not me in the foreground)

[andyb]

and the front welded up arms ??

Don't wish to sound like I'm picking holes, but doesn't the G2F 3-link use special built QT front arms? Also welded up??

[Top90]

On the road it is lethal,the handling at high speed is something I never want to experice again, try asking your insurers to insure it !

I run an extreme kit on a 90 that for about three months I used every day to commute to work 40 miles each way. Had no problem insuring (itemised on my policy) and found the handling OK (you must allow for a lifted 90 on big tyres.) My 90 cruises with this set up at 70+ no problem.

I would be interested to know how that vehicle was set up.

The biggest mod I made to my 90 was taking off the front winch.

With it fitted the stiffer front springs needed compromised the front articulation. Since I put softer springs on the front, and stiff ones on the back it has made it much better balanced. You have to accept that it will alway be biased towards the front with that system.

PS. I do not work for Scorpion, and am looking forward to seeing a 3 link 90 in action in a month or two so I can compare them side by side. I will be taking both out for a play.

Unfortunately, what tends to let Scorpion down is the fact that none of thier ads have prices on them, and when you phone up the customer service can be a bit pot luck if they are busy.

Richard

[Aubrey]

Got this from Nigel at Gon2far.

BTW, their front arms are not welded QT items but their own design. I have a similar setup to you, Ogwi on my 90 with a supercharger .... Evo II from Scorpion. Maybe I should read my tea leaves and not go overboard ........nah, why not !!

[will_warne]

I'd do G2F every time, just look at how flat the vehicle is I also much prefer the company. I spent a while chatting to them at Billing and they are superbly enthusiatic and friendly. They're kit is also very well thought out and put together.

Scorpion, well, I'm not a massive fan. I'm not convinced by the performance of the extreme kit (some people do swear by it but each to their own.....) or by the company.

In the end, both are expensive so be sure you get the one you think would suit you best.

[Turbocharger]

I think the above pictures tell their own story from an engineering point of view. The three-link vehicle sits level, the radius armed vehicle doesn't, although they have approximately equal 'twist' overall.

At the end of the day, roll stiffness has to come from somewhere, and it acts exactly against offroad articulation. Some kind of dynamic system (air susp, right through to anti-roll bar disconnects) is the only "proper" solution to this, although elegance is in simplicity and dynamism adds complexity - just ask SimonR!

[D9OSV]

Everyone will always have this argument....

Look at the kit, then look at who is using the kit.....

G2f is a lovely piece of evo, But has problems...... Pro-comp shocks, Please....... (Bloody terriable replace them all the time)

The system works very well though, and as Will points out the vehicle is very flat which is lovely.

But on a defender you need a comprimise between what is effective and what is just a bit to much

The Challenger kit is a direct rip off of a type of kit made by Gywn Lewis (They should be ashamed of themselves)

And is an amazing bit of kit (When made by Gwyn).

Gywn also makes an amazing full travel system that uses OME shocks repalcement shock turrets and replacement rear shock brackets. This system uses the same shocks front and rear and is very well balanced.

You can very happily place a front wheel on top of a 205 litre drum with all other boots firmly on the ground.

This a a system well worth looking at and is cheaper than all of them.

I have been fortunate enough to drive many systems and hope to get a drive in a g2f vehicle before long (I'm also looking forward to seeing it in use at the Bulldog trophy)

Until i hve seen it used in anger i will not comment, apart from to say that some of the ideas being used have already been tried and discarded by others........

The extreme kit whether or not supplied by scorpion or it's orginal manufactures,Euippe (Think thats how you spell it?) is a serious bit of kit, and again has some great ideas.......

In our experience the only problems leading to poor road handling with this kit is lack of time working out spring weights before ordering or LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO SET UP THE SHOCKS.

If you are using the vehicle every day i would seroiusly consider the Gywn Lewis system as it allows for lifted vehicles and standard hieght cars.

Be aware of poor imatations though mate as there are some VERY horrible people out there

I hope you pick the useful bits....

All the best

Jim

[Adrian Turner]

Well just to add my view,

What about the Safari Gard 3'link systerm?

had a close look at that at Billing and it looked a very simple

setup with good results!

Has anybody tried this out? had one fitted or know of one in use?

Regards Adrian

[andyb]

their front arms are not welded QT items but their own design.

My apologies, but I saw this site and was under the impression that it was the 'prototype' that the G2F kit was based on.

The single axle mounting radius arms will be supplied by QT Services and are based on there Ultra Light items.

Not looking for an argument, must have just got my wires crossed

[minivin]

This is the only picture I have of mine showing axle articulation at the mo (not a lot, I know), but it goes way beyond and has, so far, always reseated nicely. (BTW, that's not me in the foreground)

that'll be me who took that photo

[LR90]

Well if I was spending that sort of cash I'd be doing a bit of homework first.

Check out the Yellow Defender Twist OFF, while ago, SG was still in prototype stage, but it comes up with some valuable findings.

I would also be cautious about dislocating springs unless its only for the RTI ramp. Checkout Outerlimits and Pirate.

Off course it does depend on what you want to do with the truck.

[LR90]

double post ...

[simonr]

Just thought I'd stick my oar in here - while trying not to make this too blatent a plug!

In the new year, we are planning on marketing a bolt-on multi-link suspension system based on technology developed and used in anger by one or two people on the forum combined with a take on my ball-joint radius arms.

Although this is on the drawing board (actually, it's literally on my bench), I think it will give gone-to-far and scorpion a run for their money in terms of performance, but more particularly cost! We would like to bring multi-link down in to the same ball-park as winches and lockers - in other words within the reach of the likes of us!

For on-road manors, I think I have cracked how to make a pneumatically or possibly electrically disconnectable anti-roll bar. Jeep style disconnects are all very well - but I do hate the idea of rolling around in the mud to put them back in for the drive home.

Watch this space - as they say!

Si

[bishbosh]

Watch this space - as they say!

Nice wesite Si!

I think I need to have a chat with you on Saturday - got a couple of ideas brewing!

BTW - what's with the septic spelling of "honour"....? Tsk tsk tsk

[Petergg]

I have seen and looked closely at the extreme kit in action.

It is impressive,......very impressive..... but thats about all it is.

On the road it is lethal,the handling at high speed is something I never want to experice again, try asking your insurers to insure it !

Well I have the SR Extreme kit on my 90, I drive it hard on and off road with no problems, on road it is very good I run simex or mud terrains and can travel at 70+ with just a few wobbles when on Simex

I still find that I need to use my Air lockers though:o

Peter

[Top90]

Peter

Do you find that the heavier front springs needed for a winch and strengthened bumper tend to upset the front to back articulation balance though?

Or did you also put very stiff ones on the back?

Richard

[Aubrey]

If you are using the vehicle every day i would seroiusly consider the Gywn Lewis system as it allows for lifted vehicles and standard hieght cars.

Where can I get more dope on this?

[Mark90]

http://www.gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/

[simonr]

Nice wesite Si!

I think I need to have a chat with you on Saturday - got a couple of ideas brewing!

BTW - what's with the septic spelling of "honour"....? Tsk tsk tsk

Cheers Charles!

Where does it say 'Honor'? Must be the spellchecker in Dreamweaver!

See you Sat.

Si

[Petergg]

Peter

Do you find that the heavier front springs needed for a winch and strengthened bumper tend to upset the front to back articulation balance though?

Or did you also put very stiff ones on the back?

Richard

Hi Richard,

Good drivers don't worry about that sort of thing

I have a winch front and rear, don't no what springs I have but rear is soft, and I feel the front a tad hard.

Next time you come to Bures, find me and we can have a play, and see what they do.

Peter

[Top90]

Peter

I'll be in touch in October.

We should be bringing up a scorpion extreme kitted 90 and a Gon2far 3 link 90.

Should be an interesting day.

Richard