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Forum Charter - your views required


BogMonster

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I think we should have some sort of simple charter. One of the points froma modding point of view should be that a thread/post never gets deleted.

Most of us on here are mature enough and old enough to self-moderate the forums if we don't like something we see, and i think mods very rarely have to step in. If a mod does step in, i think the threads should be left so that everyone can have a read/discuss what had been raised- for example if someone is slagging someone else off in a thread- then lock it and everyone can sort the situation out openly.

The only proviso is of course spam and stuff for sale, in which case i say trash it!

I don't think mods should have the power to get rid of threads outside of this, as the forum then takes on their personality of what they find acceptable, not what the majority find acceptable!

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I don't think leaving locked threads is good . If as you say one guy is rowing with another, then leaving the exchanged insults for all to see is a bad thing.

Gone and soon forgotten is a much better idea.

Self-moderation would be ok if everyone agreed on the 'rules' - they obviously don't.

There will always be a difference of opinion at all levels from spam to foul language, semi-naked avatars, multiple user names, etc etc etc.

These things have already happened, which is why we are here discussing it.

There is indeed a certain amount of self-moderation on here, mostly because the core of members know each other either in person or have been on the same website for years. The majority of new members behave in the same way, but a few don't, we all lose our temper, make a slip of the tongue, and some are just wind-up merchants, hence the need for us lot. I for one don't think I should have to justify every single action to the collective members, I doubt most would want that anyway. Nor will I read every single post that's ever made on here either, mostly because it's not necessary. There is a 'notify a moderator' function, and it gets used from time to time to let us know of a dodgy post.

The idea of the charter is not to lay down the law - I believe this isn't necessary on this website - it's more an agreement between members (old and new), and the moderators/admin as to what is acceptable behaviour for all.

If a thread is locked or deleted, then an explanation is fine.

Personally I have a few rerservations about this charter. Rules and regulations surrounding what we all enjoy isn't necessarily good, we have enough of that in the real world.

The more common sense related and minimal the charter is, the better it would be for all I reckon.

Les. :)

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I'm in favour of locking threads before 'deleting' them [ / sending them to the recycle forum]

What I've noticed on other 'net forums, is that there's a tendency, when thread deletion is a common course of action for moderators, for trolls to commit a kind of 'suicide bombing' troll, ie making a thread so argumentative that its deletion would be virtually inevitable. Although it supposedly takes 2 to tango, it seems easier for a troll to find a succession of brief tango partners on the internet.

Then deletion of the whole thread is kind of unfair on people who have made comment in a way that really doesn't deserve deletion; it's in a way, tantamount to punishing the whole class for the behaviour of one miscreant.

I know this forum isn't normally the kind of place that that kind of thread regularly happens on, although the JY Kelly business was an instance of that kind of thread.

Les, I reckon that any biting/ bitterness quickly gets ignored & dissapears down the board, so a PM from the Mods should do the necessary. Simon isn't suggesting 'no deletion ever', simply making it a last resort.

Maybe the 'simple basic rules' should be the only rules, although the additional notions in the charter could be a statement of more general policy/ thinking.

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As per above, thread deletion should be used only as a last, not a first resort. If there are offending posts, edit/delete them. If the offenders carry on posting in the same manor, lock the thread. If they carry on, on a different thread, give the individuals a warning, then lock them out of posting anything until they calm down.

I believe that a whole thread should only be deleted if it's acting as a honey-pot for trols and the are poluting other threads. In that case it is in the best interests of the whole forum for it to be gone & forgotten.

It should not be acceptable for a mod just to pull a thread because it offends them - that's just censorship. In many cases it is justified, but in others it's just plain wrong.

A set of rules of engagement with an escalating response, I think would put people more at ease.

Si

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Well I have failed the 'observation test' as I've only just noticed this thread. :rolleyes:

Nige - I think everyone agrees, keep it simple, but I also agree with Si and strongly feel that we should have the opportunity to voice an opinion on the moderation of the forum when necessary. I also feel that any member should be able to do this without people thinking you are attacking the mods.

I personally think the best thing to do with a dubious thread is that all content from the thread be deleted but the thread left with the notification of deletion pending review by the mods and a reason for the deletion - for example foul language, spam etc etc.

This way people will know why a post has been deleted and is being reviewed by the mods.

I also think that new open mod positions should be advertised on the Int'l forum and people invited to apply.

I don't mind whether the applicants are voted for by the existing mods or in a closed vote by the forum members.

Cheers

Steve

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I saw this thread, and refrianed from posting till some debate had happened. As somone who spends probably 12 hours a day logged in during the week, I read the vast majority of stuff that gets posted. I don't post a lot as I don't feel the need to comment on everything - I post where I can contribute. I have been here since the beginning and was on the old place for about 5 years before that...

I think steve has got it spot on. The rules are simple, defined, and by and large adhered to. I think deletion of real posts (ie non-spam/newbie calssifieds) should be minimised and done on a 'moderate' basis rather than as a snap decision.

I also agree that nomination of moderators should be a bit more public, but not necessarily the appointment process. If I could say "I think A.N.Other would make a good mod" it would be better than somone getting an invite to be a mod in an unmarked brown envelope. However, it should be up to the mods to say "yeah, I agree invite them" rather than it be mass popularity contest.

Also if the classifieds issue could automated, that would be good. I am pretty sure a database routine could be written to upgrade a 'newbie' to a 'full user' after 20 posts, and the classifieds forum could be limited to only 'full users' to post. I write DB stuff for a living so I might be able to help?

I shall go back to lurking now....

Mark

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Also if the classifieds issue could automated, that would be good. I am pretty sure a database routine could be written to upgrade a 'newbie' to a 'full user' after 20 posts, and the classifieds forum could be limited to only 'full users' to post. I write DB stuff for a living so I might be able to help?

The forum software is capable of 'promoting' members from one group to another when they reach a certain post count, so we could actually do this. I think this feature must have been added by one of the updates, because I looked into this when we set the forum up and decided it couldn't be done. Only catch is that it would bar wanted posts as well as for sale, which we don't currently subject to the 20 post limit - however not many new users post wanted ads, so this wouldn't be a major problem.

We try to avoid adding custom code to the forum, as it can be overwritten or broken by updates, which are fairly frequent - something which sat outside the forum itself and just modified data in the database would be more robust, but I don't think we have the ability to create a scheduled job to run it. Thanks for the offer though - it will be born in mind. You might end up regretting revealing your occupation... :D

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You might end up regretting revealing your occupation... :D

my profile has always said 'Computer Nerd'! :P

Sounds like it could be possible with the existing software though, which is cool.

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I think the forum works very well as it is.

The idea of upgrading users once they get to 20 posts would be a good addition (as long as they get some sort of fanfare).

I like the OT posts. They do make you feel like youre part of a group rather than just asking advice and getting an answer (thats just a database). The OT stuff is mainly confined to the international forum anyway so I dont think its a problem.

I was never a member of the old forum but having had 'the owner' of our uni American football forum start deleting posts he didnt agree with I know how frustrating it can be.

I will refrain from plugging my charity rally in this thread. :ph34r:

Snailracer B)

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I have no problem with 99% of the mods work here.

Deleting SPAM and classified ads from new posters I have no problem with.

But deleting general threads from the public eye is confusing. IMHO threads should be locked before being deleted. If the thread contains anything that needs "modding" Then it should say alongside the edit.

"Slanderous comments removed by Joe Bloggs - Moderator"

Thats all and thanks to everybody for making this a nice place to be.

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New members should "at least" fill in their profiles I think.

Wanna lurk and not to introduce yourself,up to you,but let us know who is lurking...?

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Moderating actions/policy

Generally anything blatantly inappropriate (e.g. obviously libellous comments) will be removed immediately by the relevant forum moderator when they see it.

and

2. No personal attacks inc flaming

.....(nasty as oposed to a ok leg pulling) as per another other site can't remember which was a recent post here

My 2p worth. The decision for posts that are allowed to run but do not conform to the above seems to be somewhat biassed, clearly it is a subjective opinion (the moderator'(s)) on what is acceptable or not?

The recent epsiodes with the X-eng, i.e SR vs SR (orange), were allowed to run and I get the impression that that was because SR (non-orange) is a "mate" of a lot of people on here (I am trying not having a go at anyone but trying to write this if I were totally indpendnet new comer so apologies for any possible offence).

If I was SR (orange one), I would find those post objectionable and not conforming to the above charter.

And surely: scorpion.gif

this doesn't conform either? If I were SR (orange) I for sure would take exception to that.

I don't have a problem with these posts, just pointing out that I do not think is not as fair as it is made out to be (depends on the view point).

I also don't think posts like those should be removed hence I have no solution either.

Just for the record, I have never dealt with SR (orange) nor likely to in the future, simply because they do not offer anything that I want to spend my money on. On the other hand, I have comunicated and dealt with SR (X-eng) and found him to be a all-round good egg so it would be too easy for me to be biassed which I am trying not to be for the same of this post.

[opens up can of worms and runs away very quickly . ... well, you did ask for an opinion.....]

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Well I say keep it simple as no-one wants a whole set of rules.

20 post count autoupgrade to allow you to post in the classified is a damn good idea and i feel should be implemented. It'll solve alot of the problems in my opionion.

Otherwsie it seems pretty good as it is. Just keep the OT stuff to a minimum, bearing in mind this a is a landrover forum, not a personal chat room as some people seem to think of it as.

Jon

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personal chat room? thats a bit harsh Jon.

MOST of the time this forum is LR related, but as with any hobbie.... other topics creep in from time to time.

This mix of Tech/humour /FRIENDLINESS is what many log on to here for.

We must be careful that people are not put off from joining for fear that they are not techy enough?

The idea of the 20 posts is good for the classified section

may i suggest a section for general chit chat

and one for jokes/humour?

one for overland adventures etc

Then maybe we can acommodate all? afterall we all wear the same LR badge?

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aiy, I don't just log on here for purely technical content. I've got enough techie forums that I visit and people moaning about content being off topic, I know where the "mark as read" button is and some people may find getting accustomed to this button would improve their visits rather than just moaning about off topic threads :(

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...may i suggest a section for general chit chat

and one for jokes/humour?

one for overland adventures etc

Then maybe we can acommodate all? afterall we all wear the same LR badge?

I'd say the problem with too many sections is everyone gets lost. I like the random OT posts dotted amongst the regular posts. If theyre all lumped in one place it turns into a chat room not a tech forum. The odd OT post gives everyone a sense of belonging, you feel youre getting to know people by what they post OT.

Snailracer

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Agreed - some OT is good or you never really get to know anyone, but it's a double edged sword -

>"We must be careful that people are not put off from joining for fear that they are not techy enough?"

I can't imagine that's ever the case here - it's not Pirate, people don't get flamed for asking reasonable questions. We must also be careful that if too much content is OT, people won't join because it's not really a LR forum any more. I've seen lots of fora I have no interest in going back to as there is little tech there. Without tech input, the quality of the forum in general drops as people frequent alternative sites where there is greater input to their questions.

I honestly think that more than 1 OT forum section is OTT. This is a Land Rover/offroading forum first and foremost.

I also agree about keeping the rules simple, and with Moglite et al about deleting individual posts rather than whole threads - it is unfair on the others, and we lose the content of the thread entirely (the good bits too).

I defo agree with the 20 post = classifieds idea, but as we have already seen, people just post 'I am a fish' 20 times in random threads, et voila! Unilateral thread deletion for clearly spammy/abusive etc threads is fine by me.

Was it HFH who said K.I.S.S.? For the 'rules' I think that's the way to go.

Al.

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I'm pretty happy with it the way it is.

The odd OT topic is fine with me, we don't want to get to 'up ourselves' do we... and as said earlier we don't want to put new members off joining by appearing to be to snooty..... i think the ballance is about right at the moment....

I hate ORRP as its just like a rowdy northern working mans club, (and i'm a soft southerner) i'm not realy into pirate4x4 as i don't like the idea of being slated the minute i open my mouth.

this place works for me, its the only one i regularly visit, i like mud-club a bit, but not realy a fan of LRO (too many numptys)

I agree with the keep it simple, keep the spam and commercial adverts off, if you want that, buy LRO.

i did get a little annoyed with a post being locked just after someone had a pop at me, after i dared to point out that they were wrong, without giving me a chance to respond. but at least i understand the concept of wading plugs, and why they should be removed (which is more than can be said for those involved.)

well done to all of you who put time, effort and cash into this place, you've done a sterling job and you should be proud of yourselves.

the fact that the 'management' have seen the need for a charter says to me that there is quite a lot of thought going into maintaining and building on the sucess of this place, which has to be good for all of us.

i just hope it stays impartial, and doesnt get involved with any commercial sponsors, as it'll go down the drain if that happens.

matt.

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I'm pretty happy with it the way it is.

The odd OT topic is fine with me, we don't want to get to 'up ourselves' do we... and as said earlier we don't want to put new members off joining by appearing to be to snooty..... i think the ballance is about right at the moment....

I hate ORRP as its just like a rowdy northern working mans club, (and i'm a soft southerner) i'm not realy into pirate4x4 as i don't like the idea of being slated the minute i open my mouth.

well done to all of you who put time, effort and cash into this place, you've done a sterling job and you should be proud of yourselves.

i just hope it stays impartial, and doesnt get involved with any commercial sponsors, as it'll go down the drain if that happens.

matt.

Matt would you like a job as my interpreter?

you have said what i was basicly trying to say!

Mandy.

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i'm sure i've seen a film about a 'lady of maturity' propositioning a young Graduate.....

......with Dustin Hoffman in it......

..........what was it called.................

............Hmmmmmm....................

:P;)

...anytime.... ;)

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