Tonk Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 has anybody been mad enough to try and refill their half size argoshield gas bottle from a full sized bottle? if so how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I theory you could just connect one cylinder to another with no regulator, and the pressure would equalise between the two. The connection would have to be able to take the pressure though. I don't know what pressure a full cylinder of Argoshield would be, but (for instance), Oxygen is 3-4000 Psi, when full, so the connection would have to be able to handle that. Acetylene is 400, so a huge difference. As long as you take the pressure into consideration, then it's possible to do it relatively safely. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edd Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 You could do as Les suggests but if you do there are a few things you need to make shure of. the most inportant thing is that You need an accurate set of scales. you need to find the tare (or empty ) weight of the bottle. which is usualy stamped on it. you also need to find the maximum weight of gas that it can hold. also should be stamped on it. Stand the bttle on the scales and fill with liquid from the other cyclinder untill the scales show the tare weight plus the maximium gas weight. then stop and disconect. You realy dont want to just connect the botles to gether, open them and lert then equalise, as if there is too much gas in the refilled botle a vcery small external temp change can cause the bottle to explode! You also cannot tell how much gas is in rthe bottles by looking at the preasure. Its somthing i would leave allone personaly and get it refilled properly. nb. also the valve on an argon shiled bottle is a gas only valve so you in theroy need to invert the large bottle to transfder the gas as a liquid. Edd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 hmmmmm i can see that this could be a recipe for disaster, i think i might just get it filled properly rather than risking wearing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MogLite Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 hmmmmm i can see that this could be a recipe for disaster, i think i might just get it filled properly rather than risking wearing it Having seen the mess 300psi made of a alloy wheel and tyre on VroomVroom (Sky1) last night - I think not messing about with 3000psi is a very wise idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 Yes, we used to to it when we were even more skint than we are now but for the price of a bottle fill at BOC its a waste of time IMO, frost is the big issue, link them up fill it a bit at a time, interconnect piping/fittings and connections must be rated at 300bar MINIMUM, bottles to have the same rating etc etc, A Vapour transfer doesnt last long when you pull the trigger - A liquid transfer is NOT something to do at home When bottles explode its real purdy pah - look at all the broken stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 You could do as Les suggests but if you do there are a few things you need to make shure of.the most inportant thing is that You need an accurate set of scales. you need to find the tare (or empty ) weight of the bottle. which is usualy stamped on it. you also need to find the maximum weight of gas that it can hold. also should be stamped on it. Stand the bttle on the scales and fill with liquid from the other cyclinder untill the scales show the tare weight plus the maximium gas weight. then stop and disconect. You realy dont want to just connect the botles to gether, open them and lert then equalise, as if there is too much gas in the refilled botle a vcery small external temp change can cause the bottle to explode! You also cannot tell how much gas is in rthe bottles by looking at the preasure. Its somthing i would leave allone personaly and get it refilled properly. nb. also the valve on an argon shiled bottle is a gas only valve so you in theroy need to invert the large bottle to transfder the gas as a liquid. Edd Ummm, there is no liquid in an Argon bottle......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkieB Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 You also cannot tell how much gas is in rthe bottles by looking at the preasure. I'm not familiar with hazchem filling, although I'd guess the principles are similar to filling scuba tanks; there, the pressure indicator was the [only practical] way of knowing when the tanks were full; so although it wouldn't, technically, tell you 'how much' gas was in the tank, it would tell you how close the tank was to 'full'. One more tip is to fill the tank with it mostly submerged in a cold water bath, to absorb the heat given off as the pressure in the tank increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicksmelly Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 I have a 1/4 size bottle of Argoshield. I get it refiilled at a place in Manchester called Freshford industrial gasses. It's £11 for a refill. They connect my small bottle up to a big cylinder with a hose and decant (fill) until the pressure equalises.. they then connect to a second cylinder and do the same, then a third.. by the time they've finished the third the cylinder is full. No scales or liquid transfer... simple affair, takes a couple of minutes at most. After seeing the pro's doing mine, I did the same with my nitrogen cylinders... using a hose made up from a local hydraulic supplier, cost me £10 for hose. Rated at 500 bar. I only have one big cylinder so don't get as much as a proper refill in, but I only use it for fox shocks, and asl ong as theres over 500 psi in, i'm happy! Regards, Niclk... the smelly one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiagoc Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 hmmmmm i can see that this could be a recipe for disaster, i think i might just get it filled properly rather than risking wearing it and avoid getting your name in the Darwin Awards (Wikipedia details) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Tonk, Erm......... If you do try, and end up "greeting" the ceiling at 4000 MPH could I have your Tyres, rear crossmember, and that nice Cat mate Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted May 10, 2006 Author Share Posted May 10, 2006 u forgot to ask for my engine that still runs when its raining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Oh go on then I can flog it and get a few quid for it Kind of you to offer When I hear the "Ooo F***" - 'BANG' - I'll pop around then, ok ? nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 I might have happened to do this once or twice! As per above, there is no liquified gas in an argon or argo-shield bottle. To liquify, you would need almost double the pressure. Carbon-dioxide is liquified in the bottles and has a vapour pressure of about 750psi. If the gas is not liquified, you can tell the amount of gas simply by the pressure. In the case of CO2, it will read the same until almost empty - but you can still tell by weighing it. You just need to connect the two bottles together and equalise the pressure. If the connecting hose is suitably rated (300 to 500 atmospheres) you will not have any problems. I would suggest doing it at the bottom of the garden though. Turn on the valves and run away! If your house is still there half an hour later, it's probably safe to go and disconnect them. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted May 26, 2006 Share Posted May 26, 2006 I think Mr. BOC would probably be the wisest course of action ! Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolgene Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Wotcher, If one tries to fill an ArgoShield in a DIY style, you'll never achieve the 'full' pressure. Consider, connect the full bottle (A) to the same size empty bottle (B), open the valve...both bottles will equalise to half the original pressure. If you repeat this cycle 5 times (using a, get it filled new 'full' bottle and the same original bottle B each time) the end pressure will be 96%. 10 cycles and you'll get 99.9%. Thats a lot of effort. If you need a full ArgoShield get it filled professionally It is posible to fill a CO2 cylinder quite easy (I'd avoid the pub gas bottles, the CO2 may not be dry, wet gas = naff welds) Your CO2 target bottle will have a stamped weight of maximum allowed CO2, remove the valve, drop in said weight of dry ice, replace valve, allow to equilibriate to room temperature. Dry ice is solid CO2, try an internet search for ease of purchase, get the numbers and weights right.....its not a problem. In true 'Brainiacs' style I deliberately overfilled one, the bottle-did-not-burst, there is an anti-bursting disc within the valve head, although when it cuts loose it sounds like a jet taking off gluck auf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T1G UP Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 you'll have to o some to blow up a botle of . these things are tested way over the pressure that they put in them (not very well most of the time) Anyway i'm an agent for a gas supplier so open up an account and you can have all the gas you want!! safely aswell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiagoc Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 (...) although when it cuts loose it sounds like a jet taking off it's better to "sound" like a jet taking off, than "looking" like one (it would be the case with a dive/scuba air bottle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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