chromofoam Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Afternooon! Anyone know of a producer of BioDiesel for a reasonable price? I've been researching it and thought about making some, but I don't have the space for allowing it to settle and wash etc. Does anybody know of a place where I can get some in reasonable quantities (circa 200L) ? Looking at under £1 per litre ideally, not sure if that's realistic or not. Does anybody know of anywhere? Or does anybody currently run on it? Cheers A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewh Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 A, Think very carefully before trying to make your own Bio diesel. Although it is a relatively easy process, it is fraught with danger. You will be using two very toxic substances in the transesterification process, i.e. Methanol and Lye. I used to make Bio diesel until my company sent me on a Methanol handling course. I won't go near the stuff now. Instead of me trying to explain why it's both dangerous and highly poisonous, I recommend you do a little research on-line. The combination of Methanol and Lye results in an even more toxic substance. I switched to using WVO, which is simply veg. oil which has been filtered & settled. I have to either blend the WVO or pre-heat it before it reaches the injector pump, to reduce the viscosity. I actually do both. I thin it with petrol, then heat it with a home-made heat exchanger. If you buy Bio diesel from someone else, you need to be very careful that person knows what they are doing. Poorly made Bio diesel can wreak havoc with your engine. Some car manufacturers warn not to use Bio diesel in their cars, as it can wreck certain seals in the fuel system. It is a very powerful solvent. I seriously recommend that you use WVO rather than Bio diesel, and do plenty of research on-line, if you haven't already done so. Good luck, Stewart Afternooon! Anyone know of a producer of BioDiesel for a reasonable price? I've been researching it and thought about making some, but I don't have the space for allowing it to settle and wash etc. Does anybody know of a place where I can get some in reasonable quantities (circa 200L) ? Looking at under £1 per litre ideally, not sure if that's realistic or not. Does anybody know of anywhere? Or does anybody currently run on it? Cheers A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orgasmic Farmer Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 You could also set up your own community group to bulk purchase Biodiesel. Here is a link to our nieghbouring community which has done just that. http://www.llangattockgreenvalleys.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50:bio-diesel&catid=35:bio-diesel&Itemid=57 Was talking to my Vet the other night about it. He lives there and is now running his Volvo V90 AWD on it. Has seen a 2.5 MPG (10% in other words) reduction but otherwise no noticeable difference. With prices approaching 120/l it is also nearly 20% cheaper so still a saving. I have a twin tank system for my Disco (though I have yet to plumb it in!). I have just ordered a 1000l IBC of SVO (pure rapeseed)from verdantfuel.co.uk at 75p/l. That's 45/l cheaper than mineral! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chromofoam Posted March 26, 2010 Author Share Posted March 26, 2010 Thanks for the replies guys. Yeah it's certainly attractive for the savings, but I'm wary of the implications of destroying my engine! I did have reservations about making my own biodiesel, yes. I did kind of think that, for all the claims that it's green and wonderful and skipping through a flowery meadow and not hurting the little bunnies....what do you do with the highly toxic by-products? When you're done you're left with a bucket of glycerine and loads of waste materials - you can't chuck this stuff down the drain and claim to be green!!! My main motivation is price, because lets face it, if diesel was cheap I wouldn't even consider running it on anything else. With duty set to go up with this weeks budget, I'm interested in finding ways of making motoring cheaper. I have heard the argument that you can put in some veg oil, along with some white spirit, and cut that mixture with normal diesel - is that right? It seems daft to me though because surely when veg oil gets into your cylinders it's too thick to make a fine mist from the injectors and you end up with gunk on the insides of your cylinders? I've heard claims that it burns cleaner and cleans out your valves and cylinders - but isn't that what Redex does?? Hmmmm perhaps just stick to Diesel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 Funnily enough, I'm in the middle of building a reactor. The old react/wash/dry method is exactly that - old. There are designs of processor out there now that will go from cold waste oil to being able to put in the car in 2 hours. In a fairly simple reactor, you should have an oil to biodiesel time of around 4 hours. And the vast majority of that is waiting for it to heat up. The actual reaction takes only 40 mins or so. It is then normal to leave it to settle for around a week or so. Yes, I've just ordered a 205l drum of methanol. I've also been on a hazardous chemicals handling course, and I've had firefighter training. I'm still quite happy to have a drum of it around - you just need to take precautions. Similarly the caustic soda. Biodiesel isn't green, and kills a great many bunnies. It kills less bunnies, however, than fossil diesel. If you really want to help the bunnies, then take out the engine and fit and electric motor. As for glycerine - my reactor actually burns the glycerine to generate the heat for the process. Or at least it will when I can get it to work right. It'll be on electric for the first few batches. Don't even go there with veggy+white spirit. A load of Top Gear tosh. It is however possible to run a twin tank system. You only get problems with running on veggy when the engine is cold (well, some engines). All too complicated and sooo many options to list them all here. Check out Veggy/Bio forum. Loads of info and loads of helpful people to answer your questions. Forgot to add: Be very very careful who you buy biodiesel from. There are unfortunately far too many people out there without good quality control and who don't bother to make the stuff properly. Bad bio can wreak havock to a fuel injection system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igol Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 I looked into the make your own biodiesel route (being a friend with a local chippy owner) but the methanol was the sticking point, caustic soda you can pick up anywhere. Buying the small quantities I'd need ramped up the price and the other option of an IBC container of the stuff wasnt really an option. I've been using SVO in the summer months for 2 years now with no ill effects up to about 80% veg oil to 20 diesel as the weather gets warmer, but you need to know someone with a Bookers card or similar to get it at about 70p/litre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 27, 2010 Share Posted March 27, 2010 A 205l drum of methanol is around £85 from several suppliers I know. That will make a shade over 2000 litres of biodiesel, assuming you recover the excess methanol from your bio/glyc. In that 2000 litres of bio, you will save about £2240 over diesel prices, assuming you have free oil. Can you tell I've made a spreadsheet to work out how much this is going to save me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chromofoam Posted March 29, 2010 Author Share Posted March 29, 2010 Ok James, you're officially a massive spreadsheet geek! But if you get it working and you're looking at flogging a couple of barrels, I'd happily furnish you with some purple beer tokens. or we could come up with some kind of barter arrangement. Being brutally honest, bunnies I'm not worried about, there's millions of 'em round here and I think the farmers shotgun is more of a threat than my Disco plodding along the lanes, no matter what I run it on! I will try the veg oil route once it's warmer - I take it we're talking sort of early June to mid September? By the winter James will have plenty of BD to go round, won't you fella? *GRIN* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 If you are considering running on veggy, I've got a left over twin tank kit (well, most of it) from the days when I was running on veg. All you will need is an additional fuel tank (marine chandler, £30) and some fuel hose (£20?). And some wires too. The idea is that you start on diesel, then switch to veg when your engine is warm. This bypasses all the dodgy starting/ring gumming issues. Switch back to diesel before you stop the engine, ready for the next start. I'm assuming you have a TDi Disco? A Td5 is a bit too fussy for veg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chippee Posted April 2, 2010 Share Posted April 2, 2010 hi jamesmorfee,if chromofoam doesnt want the tank and fuel line,then i will buy them off you.just got a couple of questions where does the tank mount(is it for a disco,so would mount in the boot?) and would i need a heat exchanger or would starting engine in diesel first be enough then switch over to svo?thanks sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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