Weird "grinding" sound from somewhere when moving slow

[Disty]

My ninety has developed a slow grunting/grinding sound somewhere. It's especially loud when reversing slowly and seems to disappear (or be masked by other sounds) the faster I go. It doesn't make it if the car isn't in gear either.

I think it might be somewhere on the transmission (UJ's?), however my exhaust mounts are rusted off and the exhaust is held on with bent hangers. Someone replaced the gearbox before I bought it and there's a sump-style nut missing from underneath it. Could it be low on oil?

Anybody any ideas what the sound might be?

[western]

there's a sump-style nut missing from underneath

photo would help identify this, if it's on the bell housing bottom face it'll be the wading plug hole.

[Disty]

Yeah it is that- is it meant to be missing? Surely that wouldn't contribute to the grinding sound if that's what it is?

[oakesy]

Could be your wheel bearings being worn on one side. Mine were noisy on the left side. Or a dry sound close

[Disty]

But if that was the case, the sound would be there (and relatively louder!) when not in gear and moving, right?

[lrfarmer]

sounds lick a UJ to me just had to do one myself wasn't gone just sounded like grinding( someone had put it in backwoulds and wasn't easy to grease

[cackshifter]

I'd second that. Any cheeping grinding clanking etc from underneath when you're moving - UJs have to be one of the prime suspects. Try greasing them and see if it clears temporarily, though that's not conclusive as sometimes the grease doesn't go to all the bearings. Any slop in one at all means it has had it. Someimes hard to get a handle on where noise is coming from if you are driving - easier as a passenger.

Nigel

[western]

Yeah it is that- is it meant to be missing? Surely that wouldn't contribute to the grinding sound if that's what it is?

Yep, normally left out to allow any clutch fluid or engine oil to drain if the crank rear oil seal or clutch slave cylinder seals leak, fit the wading plug if itending to drive in any water [river crossing] or flood water for extended periods, the plug should be in the vehicles cubbybox or toolkit.

[Les Henson]

If it was a U/J, then I don't think it would any different if you were going fowards or backwards - they just spin after all. If the props are ok, then I'd be inclined to check wheel bearings and transfer case rear output bearing.

Les.

[Disty]

Thanks Les, that's helpful. How would I check if the props are ok? Just see if they're sliding ok?

Transfer case sounds likely too though. Can I do that from under the car, or does the box need to come out? Any workshop links for that one?

[Les Henson]

To check the props - park the vehicle on level ground, in neutral and with handbrake off. Get underneath and try to twist one half of the U/J against the other - there should be no play at all. The sliding joint should also have no play in it, but then a worn sliding joint just causes vibration. Grasp the rear prop where it connects to the handbrake drum and push upwards/pull downwards. Again - there should be no play (worn rear ouitput bearing is usually accompanied by an oil leak from the handbrake backplate). The bearing can be replaced without removing the transfer case.

How to is here - http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=6917

Les.

[Disty]

Thanks again les- very helpful.

Just been under the truck to check the props/UJs, and they seem alright. I also checked for the teltale leak from behind the handbrake backplate. All seems ok.

There is, however, an oil leak from the FRONT side of the transfer case. The prop shaft looks like it has been recently replaced as well. Looks like It's the front seal that's at fault here.

Presumably the process is similar to the back without the extra hassle of the handbrake? Will the same kit work for the front?

Thanks everyone, much appreciated :-)

[Les Henson]

Remove the front prop, select difflock, then go for a drive and see if the noise goes away. You may have an oil leak, but it might be the cause of the problem.

Les.

[nicks90]

right - thats it!

i declare this entire defender forum CLOSED.

why?

Cos my 90 reads this forum and is a copycat hypochondriac!

Mine started squeaking from underneath at low speeds on friday, the usual UJ budgie squeek. Took it off and found a partially siezed UJ. One bearing cup was full of dry rust instead of needle bearings and grease. Nice new GKN uj fitted and prop back on saturday morning.

SAME SQUEEK still there.....

Had a fiddle underneath last night and found the front transfer box output flange now has loads of play in it and has developed an oil leak in the past 24 hours and the squeek has got worse this morning and I now get vibration on over run at medium speeds.

So it looks like although that UJ needed changing, it wasnt the UJ but a knackered front tranny bearing.

bloody car.....

[Les Henson]

No-one start a thread on blown engines then

Les

[Disty]

Sad times! Fortunately all my UJ's and props seem ok- cheers for the advice Les

Having taken the front one off and driven rear wheel drive round Sheffield, I replaced the front prop and took the back off, so now I'm front wheel drive. Car started to roll away on a steep hill as I forgot the handbrake wouldn't do anything!

The noise with the front prop shaft was remarkably similar, however with the rear prop shaft off, the noise changes to a much higher pitched clanging sound instead of a grinding. The handbrake drum also seems to spin out of alignment, and to top it off, the bolts to the prop shaft were all finger-tight.

Guess I'll be taking the drum off next, see if I can figure this one out.

Is it normal for gear changes and clutching/declutching to be very "clangy" when in diff-lock?

[Disty]

By the way, how do I check my gearbox oil LEVEL without actually doing an oil change? Just want to check it... Oil leak on the front has me suspicious.

[Les Henson]

Oil leak from the prop seal will be the transfer box oil, not the gearbox. There's a filler/level plug on the back of the transfer case - almost behind the handbrake drum. With the vehicle on level ground, remove the plug (bare end of a 1/2" drive ratchet/bar will fit. Fill the transfer box with EP80/90 until it starts to dribble out. and that's the quantity set. Gearbox has a filler/level plug too - drivers side about 1/2 way up the side. Top up with D3 or similar.

Les.

[nicks90]

Is it normal for gear changes and clutching/declutching to be very "clangy" when in diff-lock?

yes,

there is bound to be play in the centre diff and as you take drive up it is taking up the slack in the centre diff AND front diff, can make it feel a bit clangy.

Just dont do racing starts from the lights and be smooth with the clutch and it'll be fine whilst in 2wd.

Les,

dont you dare!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Disty]

Ooops, I was quite enjoying the novelty of wheel spin in a land rover

Found that the rear prop shaft was ridiculously loose on the handbrake casing when taking it off, so I suspect this is to blame. Gonna wack it back on nice and tight, see if it fixes the issue.. Should probably top that oil up too.

So is there no way of checking the level of gearbox or transfer box oil without actually topping it up? (that requires spending money, sad times!)

[jbs]

(that requires spending money, sad times!)

Better get used to it as these vehicles we love do not only get addictive but also consume a lot of time, effort and cash too

John

[Les Henson]

Take the level plug out and stick your finger in to see how far down the level is.

Les.