GLASS

[bishbosh]

I had my renewal form through the post the other day from GLASS.

I have been a member for many years and any other year and I would have renewed without a second thought, but after the events this year I started to think what is there left to fight for?

Is my money actually going to help us achieve anything?

Am I being defeatist?

Should I soundly scold myself and cough up forthwith?

I know if I don't renew then I am resigning myself to the fact that we will never have a loud enough voice to fight the RA, but isn't that the reality?

Yours despondently,

Bish.

[Mark90]

Compromise: How about sending them half the renewal fee as we only have half the lanes we had last year.

[TJ101]

Compromise: How about sending them half the renewal fee as we only have half the lanes we had last year.

??? which half would them be Mark !! lookes like Exmoor is SHUT !!

[minivin]

pay up and hope your money is going to good use, otherwise you have no come back if you don't pay. I pay my Motorcycle Action Group membership each year in the hope they stop as much as possible government beaurocracy affecting my riding, as motorcycling is my main thing. I know there'll always be internal group bull$hit and other stuff, but I hope my money is being used as much as possible for the good causes.

[Paul Humphreys]

pay up and hope your money is going to good use, otherwise you have no come back if you don't pay. I pay my Motorcycle Action Group membership each year in the hope they stop as much as possible government beaurocracy affecting my riding, as motorcycling is my main thing. I know there'll always be internal group bull$hit and other stuff, but I hope my money is being used as much as possible for the good causes.

I can not say one way or the other, I have seen this posted a few time of late. Its up to you to decide. You could always join someone else. . But in the end its up to you where you put your money.

Paul

[Mark90]

??? which half would them be Mark !! lookes like Exmoor is SHUT !!

Aye some areas pedominantly RUPP's and so closed, some areas have more byways so less effected.

I thought the RUPP / Byway split was roughly 50/50.

Although I'd rather have kept RUPP's and lost byways.

Some bloody good UCR's gone too with the duel status thing

[honitonhobbit]

I just don't see the point. I shall not be renewing my membership this year.

I have been seriously thinking of joining CRAG or continuing my membership of the TRF

My Ramblers Association membership will be continued as they seem to represent the needs of the people and they have the ear of the government

[Cal]

Maybe we should all join the RA so we can attend meetings etc and start to give them a bit of education?

You never know - might work - bit of a mission!

[Paul Humphreys]

I have been seriously thinking of joining CRAG

I can recommend CRAG , but you do not have to be a member to help us of come out laning with us.

Paul

[jonboy]

My moneys going to CRAG this year, at least they seem to be able to work with the local authorities. Also the whole thing over wayfinder, I dont think I can trust my money to an organisation who can rip of software like that.

Going

Lame

And

Steals

Software.

Sorry but thats how I feel

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Hmmmmmmm, I dunno, theres still plenty to fight for ……well here there is……… but I’m not sure that GLASS has the backbone for the job, cos they havent done too well so far …….. CRAG might get my vote.... at least I can see some activity in that direction

Ian

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

and heres the problem

Infighting, too many groups, splinter groups no real joined up voice -

Divide and conquer and haven't the antis done well.

Groups are more concerned with points scoring, diluting the voice of off roaders and personal politics and self promotion, just what the antis ordered.

Like them or not, the RA are THE voice of walkers, can you mname another group ?

They have got their collective act together, and it has paid them dividends, we have not

Makes me sick, its like listening to a bunch of '4x4 politicians'

Nige

[GBMUD]

and heres the problem

Infighting, too many groups, splinter groups no real joined up voice -

Divide and conquer and haven't the antis done well.

Groups are more concerned with points scoring, diluting the voice of off roaders and personal politics and self promotion, just what the antis ordered.

Like them or not, the RA are THE voice of walkers, can you mname another group ?

They have got their collective act together, and it has paid them dividends, we have not

Makes me sick, its like listening to a bunch of '4x4 politicians'

Nige

I agree wholeheartedly.

Chris

[Happyoldgit]

and heres the problem

Infighting, too many groups, splinter groups no real joined up voice -

Divide and conquer and haven't the antis done well.

Groups are more concerned with points scoring, diluting the voice of off roaders and personal politics and self promotion, just what the antis ordered.

Like them or not, the RA are THE voice of walkers, can you mname another group ?

They have got their collective act together, and it has paid them dividends, we have not

Makes me sick, its like listening to a bunch of '4x4 politicians'

Nige

Indeed, well said. Same applies to the fieldsports lobby.

[jonboy]

and heres the problem

Infighting, too many groups, splinter groups no real joined up voice -

Divide and conquer and haven't the antis done well.

Groups are more concerned with points scoring, diluting the voice of off roaders and personal politics and self promotion, just what the antis ordered.

Like them or not, the RA are THE voice of walkers, can you mname another group ?

They have got their collective act together, and it has paid them dividends, we have not

Makes me sick, its like listening to a bunch of '4x4 politicians'

Nige

I agree with all you say, but the fact is there is more than one group. From what I have seen over the last few months is GLASS losing its way and is soon to implode on itself. My money is better spent on lanes rather than possable littigation in the courts. I will only post on the original wayfinder as I think eventually the copy site will be closed down and the data lost (snatching wayfinder in my opinion was the downfall of GLASS). There is little to be done about NERC but at least CRAG are trying to keep open what we have left.

[Les Henson]

It would helpful and not least fair, if websites like this weren't used for 'Opposition' to take swipes at each other. Comments such as 'I've heard this same thing said many times before' (or similar), does no-one any good. Maybe GLASS will fold and maybe not, all the comments is certainly not helping them is it? CRAG may be doing a stand-up job, but sniping at GLASS makes it smell bad.

Les.

[bishbosh]

Thanks for the opinions folks.

My original question was more on whether to to continue to support RoW access groups in principle not which one, or give it up as a bad job and put the money over the bar instead.

I personally think that as we are so outnumbered that there is little hope for vehicular rights of way going forward so my money is best spent elsewhere - most likely on access to private sites.

Cheers,

Bish.

[freeagent]

and heres the problem

Infighting, too many groups, splinter groups no real joined up voice -

Divide and conquer and haven't the antis done well.

Groups are more concerned with points scoring, diluting the voice of off roaders and personal politics and self promotion, just what the antis ordered.

Like them or not, the RA are THE voice of walkers, can you mname another group ?

They have got their collective act together, and it has paid them dividends, we have not

Makes me sick, its like listening to a bunch of '4x4 politicians'

Nige

yep, dead right nige, the RA are a force to be reckoned with. (wan*ers though)

the 'motorised users' needed to get together and fight this, that means quad bikers, motorcyclists, 4x4 owners.... instead even the larger 4x4 clubs can help rowing like a load of kids whove been on the sunny D...

(south london and surrey club and the joke that was the london to brighton run the other year is a prime example... on and off like a whores drawers)

i think we've lost now, GLASS has nothing left to fight for, CRAG are a better bet.

[simonr]

Giz a sales pitch for CRAG then?

First I'd heard of it was from Bob, who we teamed up with at FSWC who is a member - but we were too busy to enquire further. I just assumed it was a regional club.

What's this Wayfinder thing - don't know about that either!

Si

[Paul Humphreys]

Giz a sales pitch for CRAG then?

First I'd heard of it was from Bob, who we teamed up with at FSWC who is a member - but we were too busy to enquire further. I just assumed it was a regional club.

What's this Wayfinder thing - don't know about that either!

Si

Hi Simon,

The best way to find out about CRAG is to have a look at www.crag-uk.org We are trying to keep rights of way open for all users in the countryside, not just 4X4 users. We are a National group of users, some think we only cover Wales and the border but we do not. We have lots of members spread out all over England and Wales. Its only been 6 months since CRAG was formed. By the things that we have done & are doing I think that we have done well in that short time, others will disagree.

As for Wayfinder (www.way-finder.co.uk). CRAG were given access for its members as a Web Enabled Body (WEB). Some disagreed with this and the second copy way born (www.wayfinderproject.co.uk). I am not getting in to who and why, what is the right one. But there is some ongoing talks about this matter. It has nothing to do with CRAG. Its is between Ian Boddison and the WMT/GLASS to sort out. I for one hope its sorted as soon as possible. As one copy would be better for all.

Anymore question send me a PM and I will send my phone number and we can have a talk.

You can also have a look at the GLASS website (www.glass-uk.org) and decide for you self on who to join if any.

Paul

[girlyina4x4]

Good grief! Listen to you all. It doesn't matter who is doing what but what does matter is that someone is doing something about NERC.

GLASS WILL NOT FOLD - defeatists should be shot at dawn. Oh, just roll over and die, well not me. I will continue to drive lanes, record them, walk them whatever. I will still be a member of GLASS because if we all thought the way I've read on here then there would be nothing

To fight the burks who did this to our past time needs time, effort and unfortunately MONEY

CRAG are good in Wales. Fair enough. But there are loads of GLASS reps and members that do lane work without crowing about it - always have and always will. GLASS are affiliated to LARA and plenty of clubs are affiliated to GLASS.

Look back in history to when the Ramblers all ganged up and fought for footpaths - well, maybe that sort of thing needs organising for MPV use on lanes. Some counties are not adverse to "negotiating" - ROW officers are not all demons. Let's face it, I wouldn't want their job at the moment

Stop the moaning and do something positive B)

[Bull Bar Cowboy]

Look back in history to when the Ramblers all ganged up and fought for footpaths

Exactly ………….. and that is not what is happening in the 4x4 community ……..

It is very unlikely (nigh impossible) that the NERC bill will be overturned by pressure group(s) alone.

I’ve been around a long time (and driving lanes before a lot of the guys on this board were born )……… look what the French did ………… When they were threatened with closures and it became illegal to drive their heritage lanes …….. they all took to the banned lanes even though this meant vehicle confiscation …….. some of them lost more than one vehicle .... in fact some of the ringleaders lost serveral vehicles …………. But in the end the French government had to do a U turn ……………. In this country that will not happen ………. Equally if NERC was applied to France today the same types of public distaste would not alter much …….

Now we live in a different world………….. if CRAG & GLASS got there heads together we might retain what we are left with ……………. If there is no alliance, then CRAG seems to be the actively stronger entity at the moment …………. Currently I don’t see much to thank GLASS for ………….

Ian

[girlyina4x4]

CRAG are only strong in a few Welsh counties. Without GLASS there wouldn't be CRAG. But, it would be great if they could work together - so, why can't they?

[geoffbeaumont]

CRAG are good in Wales. Fair enough. But there are loads of GLASS reps and members that do lane work without crowing about it - always have and always will. GLASS are affiliated to LARA and plenty of clubs are affiliated to GLASS.

Maybe they should? After all, while the lane work is of itself worthwhile, it could also be used to generate considerable positive publicity both for GLASS and the cause of rights of way users generally.

[Paul Humphreys]

Maybe they should? After all, while the lane work is of itself worthwhile, it could also be used to generate considerable positive publicity both for GLASS and the cause of rights of way users generally.

I have run CRAG projects with peope who are not members of either group. We also had members of GLASS helping including an area Rep. I have also taken GLASS members out laning with me.

I will not go into this in detail on here as its not the place. CRAG are not, as I have said just in WALES, we are spreading out. But I will say this, GLASS was formed from GLOW members, who before that were AWD club members. So it looks like all good things start in Wales . I personay have a long drive next week down to Northants to have a meeting with the ROW office to see what we can do down there.

Any other questions I will try to answer, but please email them to me phumphreys@crag-uk.org as I have said forums are not the place to do it.

Paul