How broken is my land rover?

[Varsas]

Hi. Me....again(!)

I took my land rover to a local specialist to have an oil leak looked, but when phoned back the next day to say that when they started it up to move it into the workshop it started making a horrible noise. At this point they more or less said come and get it, they didn't seem to interested in wanting to fix it so I took it away.

I did drive it home (only about 2 miles) and, yes, it is making a pretty horrendous noise. There is a video here:

of it starting up/idling/revving.

Any idea's? I've pretty much decided I'm going to take it to another specialist (one I've been recommended) but any advice/comments are welcome.

Thanks again...

[Rich_P]

Sounds like it's missing. Is it like this when fully warmed up? Is it worse when under load? Or does it stay the same?

[FridgeFreezer]

Whereabouts are you?

It's not really related to the fault but you may want to actually attach the air cleaner hose to the filter rather than just leave it wobbling about polishing the paint off it, jubilee clips aren't expensive

[Varsas]

Hi.

Yes, it's like that when fully warmed up. The noise doesn't change as the engine is revved/put under load...it just gets more frequent and a bit louder at higher revs (not that I revved it very much...).

The car is in Chalfont st Peter, SL9.

[ash]

hard to note exactly where the knocjking is coming from from vid, but can see it stops when you press throttle but does it when stationary.

are all mounts intact as engines more more pn tick over??

[Bowie69]

Sounds pretty smooth for a diseasel 

And yes, seems to me by how much the engine is throwing itself around that one or probably more cylinders aren't firing.

Maybe dirt/water in the fuel (been wading recently?)

[steve b]

If it started doing that all of a sudden and you still have good oil pressure ie the light goes out when ticking over my 5p would be on a broken injector insert that will probably be wedged in the top of the piston . Whip the head off to check. Otherwise it could be a bigend bearing gone ..

hth

Steveb

[Phil Hancock]

It sounds like the compressions are not very even when it cranks, pull the head.

[Les Henson]

Take the rocker cover off and see if there's anything wrong in there. If it looks ok (check the tappets), then take the head off. If the head gasket has blown between cylinders, then the engine will sound like that. Disastrous stuff, such as big/small ends/ mains, give you some warnig before they are deafening, so if this happened all of a sudden, then it's probably not as serious as you might think.

Les.

[RPR]

If nothing else, you have failure in at least one engine mount. There's no way it moves around like that with both mounts intact. Good of the garage to check it out for you.

Otherwise, aside from the torque-thudding chassis rattle, it doesn't sound particularly odd for a 2.25 diesel. Definitely needs some love though. With all due respect, there are signs of neglect in that engine bay. Check engine and gearbox mounts. Pull the rockers and check tappets. Once the mounts are solid and tappets adjusted properly, if you still have full power (otherwise it will be a head gasket) and it sounds like that, it will make a perfectly good boat anchor...

[ThreeSheds]

As people above have said - broken engine mount was my first thought, followed by valves then injectors.

Fingers crossed it's something simple...

[Varsas]

Thanks for the help.

I took the rocker cover off, all seems fine. The valves all move as they should, but aren't loose (i.e. you can't move them by hand). A couple of the tappets need adjusting but it looks OK.

Unfortunately, since the noise started happening when in the garages care I don't know if it came on slowly, although they said it just happened...

Thanks for the observations on the engine mount, I'll have it checked.

I had the opportunity to take it to a specialist last night, so took it (not sure when I would have been able to get it down if not)...I await his call.

The sound does still happen when the engine is revved. The noise is much clearer when inside the car, it sounds like a loud tap tap tap noise. The garage said it was big ends but I am sceptical now.

Thanks again.

[DaveSIIA]

I could be worth cracking the joint on the feed pipe to each injector. Do one at a time to identify which cylinder(s) has (have) no significant effect. One cylinder just confirms the location of the problem, while two adjacent cylinders suggest the head gasket has failed between them. Either way, the head will need to come off to make further progress.

[Les Henson]

If it was the big ends, then the noise would be loudest from the sump area. Big ends don't tend to knock with the engine just sitting there ticking over, or when you rev it either (unless they are totally knackered ). Worn big ends knock when you pull away, put the engine under load (hills, etc).

Main bearings will rumble all the time - even when idling.

Small ends will rattle lightly - again, all the time.

You would have had a warning about any of these items wearing excessively. Main and big end wear would also make your oil warning light come on - particularly when the engine is idling.

Les.

[Varsas]

Sorry for the bump, but I have an update.

Number 3's exhaust valve has fallen out, with the predictable effects on the piston/bore.

To fix it needs new piston/cylinder head and a re-bore..looks like about £1000 all in. I need to decide weather I'm going to fix it or cut my losses, however I reckon it's worth basically nothing as it is so I might go ahead and get it fixed. It depends on how much cylinder heads are (and if I can find one).

Are all 2.25litre Diesel cylinder heads the same (I'm not 100% sure which engine I have, it has 5 main bearings)?

[Les Henson]

Got any pictures of the damage? A piston kit (1 x piston, rings, piston pin (gudgeon pin), and circlips is only about £20. There's plenty of decent 2nd hand 2.25's about, so I doubt you would spend anything like £1000 to get it back in good condition.

Les.

[FridgeFreezer]

For £1k the options are many - new lump should be cheap as chips, 2.5 not much more, 200TDi, V8 should come in sub-1k DIY fitted.

I wouldn't spend £1k on a 2.25 diesel, may as well pile the money up and set fire to it. Or post it to me.

[Varsas]

I agree fixing that engine isn't worth it, I have been quoted £500-£600 plus parts and even though I could swap the cylinder head and the piston myself I can't re-hone the bore.

I am trying to work out if I can do an engine swap myself but the land rover won't fit in my (single) garage, and even if it did I have no engine hoist and can't weld (and a 2.5/200TDi/V8 swap would need engine mounts moving). The land rover is also 20+ miles from my house and I really don't fancy towing it all that way again. You then have the problem of getting a decent engine. Re-conditioned ones are v. expensive, and if i just get one off flea-bay how would I know what I am getting isn't also knackered?

My thoughts at the moment are to put it up on flea-bay, hope I get £300 for it, put it down to experience and buy another, better one. Assuming it will cost £1000 to fix the landie I have (I'm only repeating what I have been quoted, £1000 to fix my engine or £1000 to fit an engine I supply), the £1000 I save by not having it fixed, plus the £300 for selling it and it's only a bit more to get another one.

I am still considering my options, and haven't given up on it yet.

[Les Henson]

Are you in the UK/whereabouts?

Les.

[Varsas]

Yes, South East, near High Wycombe. HP15 7 area.

[Bowie69]

You now talk about re-honing the bore, is that all it needs, or is it actually a re-bore job? If it is just a hone, then buy a cheapo machine mart tool for £25 and slot a new piston in, and add good second hand head and some gaskets.

If you were lucky you could be up and running again for £150-200, which makes it well worth it IMHO.

[steve b]

I think you will find the engine mounts on the chassis are in the same position for 2 1/4 - 200Tdi - 2.5 petrol/diesel. If all parts are there an engine swap in a garage with all the equipment is easily done in a day ...

hth, and as Les saked whereabouts are you ?

Steveb

[FridgeFreezer]

£1000 buys a lot of tools, engine cranes start around £150 last I looked. Or some friendly forumer may offer to tow your car to uncle les for fuel money to see if he can fix it for less.

Easiest way to buy an engine is buy a crusty Disco/RR which you can drive before you pull it.

All the popular engine swaps have been covered on here in detail so you can read up before you make a decision.

[Varsas]

OK, thanks.

I've got some time to think about it, not going to rush into anything. I'll see what engines turn up on flea-bay and in the for sale section etc.

Cheers for the help so far.

I'm in South Bucks, near High Wycombe.

[Rich_P]

I think you will find the engine mounts on the chassis are in the same position for 2 1/4 - 200Tdi - 2.5 petrol/diesel. If all parts are there an engine swap in a garage with all the equipment is easily done in a day ...

200TDi Discovery engine will fit 2.25 mounts, but the Defender unit won't. Neither will the 2.5 NA Diesel. A 2.5 NA from a Sherpa does, at the expense of waterproofed timing cover.

My personal opinion on what you should think about is a 2.5 NA if you can't find a good 2.25 Diesel (rare now!).