leeds Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Insurance question for you lot. Person A owns a car and is the registered keeper of it. Lends the car to person B long term who is the sole driver and who insures it fully comp. Have been told that this could constitute fraud! I say that if the insurance company is aware of the actual ownership of car then it is perfectly legal. Reason why this has been one is so that person B (young) can build up some years expeirence/discount. So what is the collective opinion? Fraud or legal? Regards Leeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 i would think legal, when takin insurance out firms normally ask if u r the owner of the vehicle or not, its not illegal to drive a car if u dont own it, aslong as u haven't pinched it of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Insurance question for you lot.Person A owns a car and is the registered keeper of it. Lends the car to person B long term who is the sole driver and who insures it fully comp. Have been told that this could constitute fraud! I say that if the insurance company is aware of the actual ownership of car then it is perfectly legal. Reason why this has been one is so that person B (young) can build up some years expeirence/discount. So what is the collective opinion? Fraud or legal? Regards Leeds Let look at it this way: Person A buys a car and is registered keeper, person B borrows car for 3 years (but they don't get on that well so B agrees to give A some money every month as a thankyou). Person B insures car as that what person A requires, telling the insurance company all about it. After 36 months B gives car back to A. Otherwise know as leasehire. just keep your insurance company totally informed and it shouldn't be a problem. You could of course make B the registered keeper of the vehicle- this does NOT transfer ownership in any way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I can't see it's an insurance issue as you don't need to declare to an insurance company if a vehicle is leased. Of the last two leased vans I've had one was registered in my name and one registered to the leasing company, I was the sole keeper on both vans. Judging from that you don't have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 You could of course make B the registered keeper of the vehicle- this does NOT transfer ownership in any way! This is more likely to be a legal issue - I'm pretty certain in the situation you describe B should legally be the registered keeper of the vehicle. You can always check with the DVLA if you're concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I can't see it's an insurance issue as you don't need to declare to an insurance company if a vehicle is leased. Umm steve you might want to check this. We have 8 vehicles leased, through various companies, and all of them have told us that we have to inform our insurance companies. Depends on how you lease the vehicle, but we never have legal title of the vehicles at any time- therefore we are never the legal owner- just the registered keeper. We have to tell the insurance companies this. Coupled to wich in ALL of our leasing docs, there is a clause which states that the leasing companies interest must be made known to the insurance company! you might have different setup to me though- just thought i would let you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 My friend (who is registered blind) owns his car and is the registered keeper, however as he doesnt own a licence, his girlfiend insures the car in her name (he goes through girlfiends too quick, and the next one might not have a car so, he needs his own car really!). He has had one instance where the insurance company said he needed to insure the car, and put his girlfiend on as named driver! He pointed out that as he couldn't see awfully well he was unable to get a driving licence, he might not be eligable for insurance. "Ah" was the reply! He has been a registered keeper of a car for 15 years and other people insure it, so I dont think it can be a problem. My vote = LEGAL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Legal as long as the insurance company are FULLY aware of the situation. It is then up to them if they want to offer cover. If the car is being kept by someone else and/or somewhere other than the address DVLA have then I suspect that that constitutes an offence. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 D'OH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onions Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 My previous car was owned by my girlfriend but insured by me (at another address). No problem with the insurance company; even when we made a claim. I can't see it being any kind of problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02GF74 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I would say it is legal; the insurace companies will stealtake your money regardless of any legal issues and I don't see why there is no reason you can't insure a complete strangers car in your name even if you never drive it; even make up a registration number. The problem comes when you try to make a claim; that is when the insurance companies start to scratch their heads and will not pay out unless there is a reason; for example you would not be to claim twice for the same car on separate insudrnce; that would be fraudulent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 See someone else's story. The 7th post down the list. You do not want to fall into the same trap. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 See someone else's story. The 7th post down the list. You do not want to fall into the same trap.Chris Chris Slightly different there - this is not a straight person A/Person B scenario as first described. In the case of the question Leeds posted, no its not illegal. Person A may need a good story when it comes to any traffic offences committed by person B, as they are legally obliged to name the driver. If person B has leant the car to Person C without Person A's knowledge, it could get fun... having vehcles insured twice is also not an offence - claiming on both is... Best advice is tell the insurance co when asked the 'who is registered keeper' question. Cheers Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Leeds, Yes, its perfectly legal. However be wary of the differences between ‘keeper’ and ‘legal owner’. I am also assuming that there will be insurance policy on the vehicle. The information on the V5 is not sufficient to prove legal ownership ……….. it is the keeper of the vehicle, although of course, in most instances the two above entities will indeed be the same. As an example I own, and am the keeper of all three vehicles in this household …….. however, my wife insures one of them in her name with me as a named driver, I insure another with her as a named driver, and the third is insured by me on a classic policy. That way we both get to keep our NCB ……… the classic policy does not attract NCB . The reasoning behind this is that NCB applies to the insurer and not the vehicle …….. i.e. you cannot claim NCB on two vehicles at the same time ……. I have pointed out to insurance companies on several occasions that I can only drive one vehicle at a time ! I seem too remember also, that two people are not allowed to insure the same vehicle as different entities. As with everything that’s legislative and as clear as mud …………. If the long term loan involves the vehicle being kept at a different address than the keeper shown on the V5, then as I understand it, that new address and persons name should become the keeper on the V5. Fine …………… how to fleet owners comply with that ? …… I couldn’t get a straight answer to that one from the DVLA. I think the general principle is that if the driver can always be traced from the keeper information, then that’s fine ……. I assume that’s the way fleet owners interpret the law. Its all a bit of a ‘kin minefield and the DVLA vs the insurance companies seem to have very different interpretations of the legislation. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 See someone else's story. The 7th post down the list. You do not want to fall into the same trap.Chris A bit off topic (sorry),, I am a little concern that Chris happens to be looking at Canal World " site do you need a little help there !!! Also intruded, into how you tax a vehicle, when the Reg keeper and the insured are not the same !!! Our local post office will not issue a tax disc, if the name on the Reg doc and the name on the cover note are not the same !!! (i.e. keeper and insured) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripley Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Insurance question for you lot.Person A owns a car and is the registered keeper of it. Lends the car to person B long term who is the sole driver and who insures it fully comp. Have been told that this could constitute fraud! I say that if the insurance company is aware of the actual ownership of car then it is perfectly legal. Reason why this has been one is so that person B (young) can build up some years expeirence/discount. So what is the collective opinion? Fraud or legal? Regards Leeds Im quite sure that Person A also has to be insured on the vehicle as they are the registered keeper, i used to hire vehicles & insure them personally but i know they were also insured by the hire co. What is strange though is that i have previously insured other peoples property, but in the event of a claim the insurance co wouldnt pay out even though they had taken the premium money for the past 18mnths, i was told that you cannot make a claim against someone elses property so it may well be worth asking your broker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think maybe Chris found that site due to a mis-type Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think maybe Chris found that site due to a mis-type That is practically defamation! I demand that this thread be deleted as it has turned to personal abuse. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveG Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think maybe Chris found that site due to a mis-type He he he he he I think Mark was thinking of that picture in Wales again! and Chris I think you are right and you should sue, or at least fight! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Our local post office will not issue a tax disc, if the name on the Reg doc and the name on the cover note are not the same !!! (i.e. keeper and insured) Ah Tim, but you live in a third world county ...... Been there ..............had that argument ............ the insurance must relate to the registration mark on the V5 ........ and I do believe that the insurance must name the keeper or be any driver. I have just taxed the Jeep on the net ......... I'm the keeper .......... SWMBO is the insured ............it went through OK Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark90 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 I think Mark was thinking of that picture in Wales again! I do try not to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Ah Tim,but you live in a third world county ...... Been there ..............had that argument ............ the insurance must relate to the registration mark on the V5 ........ and I do believe that the insurance must name the keeper or be any driver. I have just taxed the Jeep on the net ......... I'm the keeper .......... SWMBO is the insured ............it went through OK Ian Over the web, is a lot easier, all the "owned" vehicle are done that way,, only wish we could do the sales that way, it take 3/5 days, and sent to the last/pevious owner !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted May 18, 2006 Share Posted May 18, 2006 Also intruded, into how you tax a vehicle, when the Reg keeper and the insured are not the same !!!Our local post office will not issue a tax disc, if the name on the Reg doc and the name on the cover note are not the same !!! (i.e. keeper and insured) Change Post Office... Its the vehicle that is taxed and insured, not the driver, so as long as all the registration numbers match, or the policy is an any vehicle policy, then its fine. Thats how company vehicles are insured... Cheers Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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