Wattle Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Well I have been thinking about it for ages, Read loads about it on the net. So today I sent my cheque off to Bill Shurvinton for a Mega Squirt kit, its the first time I have built anything like this, so any tips gratefully accepted. Phil Watson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Well I have been thinking about it for ages, Read loads about it on the net. So today I sent my cheque off to Bill Shurvinton for a Mega Squirt kit, its the first time I have built anything like this, so any tips gratefully accepted. Phil Watson Make sure you have 1. Pently of Beer in the house 2. A mate who is good at electrics (sorry can't lend mine ) 3. Beer 4. Asprin 5. More beer 6. Giant size packet of patience and anti F It pills 7. Fridges PM and e-mail adrress MeagJolted mine, so only "1/2 of the darkside" Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon White Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Well all I'll say is dont get too excited........Mr Shurvington takes weeks to get his finger out and send things to you! Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 I know nuffink Yes Bill does take a while, I find it's best to e-mail him as he can't lose e-mails quite so easily... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wattle Posted May 20, 2006 Author Share Posted May 20, 2006 Thanks for your help, I am sure I will be asking for more in the coming weeks. Phil Watson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 I'm in the process of getting it up & running - and it has not been as straightforward as I hoped. I think the bottom line is you need to be able to persevere (sp?) to get it up & running properly - but I'm not quite there yet! http://www.msefi.com/. Electrically it's pretty simple to set up. The tuning manual is quite long and takes several readings to decypher - but it is mostly falling in to place now. The whole thing could be made a lot easier if the info was more readily available - but you need to do a certain amount of hunting on the web to find some of it. I'm happy to help as far as I can (so you don't over load John!). Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 MS is on my to do list, quite a long way down, but what about putting something together on here purely for the RV8 in landrovers. I've had a look on the forums and there seems a lot to wade through. We've already got Geoff and HFH's write ups, and could end up with a nice 'MS your LR in 647 easy steps' Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 I will be doing one of those when I get the time I agree the MS website almost gives too much information spread about the place, I find it quite confusing! Once you get it in and running it all makes sense, although by then it's less of an issue. In the meantime just ask, I'll usually reply since I get the stick for constantly banging on about it. BTW The current record for a conversion from Lucas to MS is ~1hour although there was a bit of prep beforehand. Splicing it to the end of a standard Flapper loom is the easiest option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 MS is on my to do list, quite a long way down, but what about putting something together on here purely for the RV8 in landrovers. I've had a look on the forums and there seems a lot to wade through.We've already got Geoff and HFH's write ups, and could end up with a nice 'MS your LR in 647 easy steps' Luke One of my intentions is to put something like that together, but as a simple list of what you need to know in order to get it up and running and what you need to find out for your engine (things like injector flow rates). Links to things like where to buy sensors in the UK and fuel-maps that you can use as a starting point for 3.5 and 3.9 engines (possibly 2.25 & 2.5 if they can be found). There are plenty of long write-ups which tend to have too much waffle: "This morning I got up, pondered the perplexing question, should I have bacon or cheese on toast?......." and not enough hard fact. I want something which will fit on a single sheet of A4 and contain enough to get you up & running with basic tuning and maybe some fault-finding FAQ's Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
istruggle2gate11 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 There are plenty of long write-ups which tend to have too much waffle: "This morning I got up, pondered the perplexing question, should I have bacon or cheese on toast?......." and not enough hard fact. I want something which will fit on a single sheet of A4 and contain enough to get you up & running with basic tuning and maybe some fault-finding FAQ'sSi Well put Si, although I would settle for A3 if I had too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Short version, assuming conversion from Flapper to MS: Weld Lambda sensor into exhaust Get an Inlet Air Temp Sensor from RS Components #151-215 (~£1.50) Sort a vacuum takeoff from the plenum Get MS ECU Get MegaTune 2.25 Ideally make a short pig-tail of wires from the MS (soldering in-car is not fun and tends not to be terribly accurate) Chop off Lucas ECU and join loom to pig-tail Chop off the airflow meter, use the light blue wire for the inlet air temp sensor. You can pinch one of the others for the Lambda sensor signal if you really want. Run +12v supply for Lambda sensor (if required) from Fuel Pump Relay Invert feed for fuel pump relay so it's activated by grounding (this is the way the MS ECU works) not +12v, this means feed it +12v live and let MS ground the coil to complete the circuit. Short across the silly over-run fuel cutoff relay on the front suspension turret Connect the idle air valve feed to ignition switched live (it's the white/green wire IIRC) Download the .s19 file with the Rover temp sensor data in it from Here Download Dan's fuel map from Here Connect the MS to the vehicle and confirm nothing goes bang when you power it up Power off, open the MS, short the "boot" jumper and upload the .s19 file as described in the Megamanual Power down, remove boot jumper, close MS, power up, burn the fuel map in Power on, confirm the values in the realtime display screen are about what you'd expect Start it Get it idling nicely - it should work straight off with Dan's map, if not then adjust the whole fuel map by tweaking the REQ_Fuel value up & down. Once this is OK and it starts reliably and revs up & down OK, go for a drive with a laptop and child on the passenger seat tuning for you. Aim to get rich-but-close across the map (EG lambda sensor reading high but not off the top). Once this is done it should be happily drivable and you can chuck the child out. Use the laptop and MSTweak3000 to datalog & suggest new fuel map values, but remember it will only be able to suggest the values for 14.7:1 air/fuel ratio, so you need to add/subtract a few % as appropriate. Under high load you want to be richer, cruising doesn't really matter as you can set Lambda correction. Setting Lambda correction - go for a small change (1%) and long delay (16+ sparks) and a reasonable limit (20%), and don't let it come in near idle (eh Dan?) as the V8 likes to idle rich. 12-1500rpm is a good threshold. Throw Lucas ECU over shoulder If it helps, here's a rough guide to the wiring: The Lucas colours are right, although they use a different Slate/? colour combo for each injector, I tend to use just one for each bank. Minor details: - The MS takes it's tach signal from the coil -ve terminal so you may need to swing a wire (white/black or white/blue are the Lucas colours) from the ignition amp to there. - Don't use bathroom sealant to glue in the air temp sensor, silicone gives off fumes that kill Lambda sensors (Ask Dave H how he knows). Most modern car sealant stuff is sensor-safe, or should be. - If your engine is blowing oil it will clog the lambda sensor and give carp readings (eh Dan?) - The fast_Idle output of the MS is not needed for the Lucas Fast Idle unit, but it's worth wiring the tail so you can use it for fan control or EDIS or such like. - MS can't cure a carp engine, only carp fuelling. - A layer of PCB lacquer / conformal coating over the PCB is a good idea. Getting it in the MAP sensor is not. - You will probably need the "Dave" capacitor, ask for it by name when ordering your ECU or see MegaManual Step 55 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wattle Posted May 21, 2006 Author Share Posted May 21, 2006 I'm in the process of getting it up & running - and it has not been as straightforward as I hoped. I think the bottom line is you need to be able to persevere (sp?) to get it up & running properly - but I'm not quite there yet! http://www.msefi.com/. I have seen your postings regarding this Simon. Fridgefreezer:- Thankyou for the shortened Conversion details Short across the silly over-run fuel cutoff relay on the front suspension turret is this the red relay? Thanks Phil Watson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRecklessEngineer Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 It is (was) kinda silvery on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomcat Nev Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 Having been through this whole process my self i can sympathise with what you are about to go through. However, like anything if you do your prep its easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I sound like my old form tutor! What i did was tackle it form the top down - so to speak. I figured if a drew the wiring diagram for installing it, i could research and answer each question as it arose! In drawing the diagram - every single problem i i encountered was answered - more or less. Consequently starting was the hardest thing - due to 0 degrees weather at the time but in reality it turned out to be really easy - a little stressy - but then i did have my dad helping me and we can argue over a cup of tea............................ Seems plenty of people on this forum are using MS now so you should have plenty of advice. Big tip though do not rely on other people as you need to understand it your self to get the best from it. At the end of the day its ahuge satisfaction when it runs. And my first attempt at tuning gave me a better car than the CUX had ever been - true the engine broke - but it was better for a while............. My garage is always open for any one to have a look at my instal on the Tomcat and ask questions etc. Cheers Nev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 John, That's fantastic. I've printed it out on A4 - and it's quite readable! Tony/Les/MOG - how about sticking this in the Tech Archive? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 is this the red relay? No, the red one is the "signal steering unit", AKA "The bits we forgot to put in the ECU" It can be safely disposed of, again referring to the wiring diagram. The overrun fuel cutoff relay is on it's own near the airflow meter and injector resistor pack on the front shock turret. It turns off the coil signal to the ECU on overrun to save fuel (no sparks = no squirts) it's a rather ugly lucas bodge. Rather than tell the ECU not to inject any fuel, they actually added more hardware to fool it. It's just a normal relay. Nev has it bang on - although it's not difficult, if you don't understand it you won't get the best from it. Work through what you're going to do before you get the wire cutters out, and get a rough idea of how EFi works. It's really not rocket science, in fact I reckon it's a lot easier than carbs! Making a neat wiring tail to join to the loom is a LOT easier than doing it in-vehicle. My record, with prep-work done and tail made, is about an hour from Lucas to MS, that was Dan's RR. Tony/Les/MOG - how about sticking this in the Tech Archive? There's already two MS threads in there, as well as Geoff and Nige's adventures... but the more the merrier until I get round to writing a more concise guide. Although I reckon Geoff, JonW, or Nige are ahead 'cos I've still not done an ignition install yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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