DIY Track rod

[MECCANO]

Im looking to get/ or make myslef a custom track rod made up for my lwt with range rover axles.

essentially i want is a standard track with a 7 degree kink 6 or so inches from each end to give a bit more clearance over the leafs.

i've been looking around but cant see a company that would do it, and i see Mr Red Ibex made a custom track rod for his front salsbury conversion out of 30mm o/d rod.

i was thinking about getting hold of another chris perfect solid track rods ( which is already about 30mm o/d ) and tweaking it in a suitable fashion.

i would be interested to know whether the one on the ibex has had any reported problems.

any input is appreciated.

Cheers

Buttface

[simonr]

There are loads of companies who do tube manipulation and bending. I would suggest searching on the web and talk to some of them. You might need to use cored bar or just heavy walled CDS tube - but there will be one available where the internal diameter is suitable to be tapped for the ball joints.

It seems to be a general requirement for the MOT that you are not allowed welding on the track rod - so, pretty much all that is left is a bent bit of bar or tube of sufficient size that it will survive.

If you are prepared to look on the web and do a bit of phoning around (most companies seem to ignore email), you will quickly find one who will help.

Regards,

Si

[Jon White]

Bent track rods on range rover axles are lethal as the track rod is in compression. Even Mr idex has succeeded in bending his 30mm solid steering bar.

Sort the axle conversion out properly, such that you can fit a straight track rod.

This is one reason why Tonk and I discounted the range rover axle route when we did our disk conversions as we couldnt find a decent way to sort the steering out. I've seen a few solutions that are downright lethal!

Jon

[MECCANO]

It seems to be a general requirement for the MOT that you are not allowed welding on the track rod - so, pretty much all that is left is a bent bit of bar or tube of sufficient size that it will survive.

Cheers simon, i guess i was being to specific in my search.

you said your generally not allowed to weld steering components... when doing the conversion on my series truck. the range rover track rod has the damper mounted to it as your well aware. i came across the problem that the "upgrade" track rod from CP didnt have this bracket( that wis welded to the orginal)

As such, i spoke to the local mot tester who automatically dismissed the idea of welding on the steering component. i then addressed VOSA, and it came apparent that there is infact an exception where it states it can be welded but only to the original manufacturers specification.

in hindsite i could have just made a clamp bracket B)

[MogLite]

I have indeed bent mine

A good quality tube would be stronger than solid IMHO !!

I've added by welding a few bracing webs on the bends, I think that is a fair comprimise.

[Mark90]

I've never had a problem at MOT time with welded steering components if it's things like brackets or strengthening welded to the steering rod etc. What isn't allowed are welded joints in the steering that if they failed would lead to a lack of steering.

[MECCANO]

Bent track rods on range rover axles are lethal as the track rod is in compression. Even Mr idex has succeeded in bending his 30mm solid steering bar.

Sort the axle conversion out properly, such that you can fit a straight track rod.

This is one reason why Tonk and I discounted the range rover axle route when we did our disk conversions as we couldnt find a decent way to sort the steering out. I've seen a few solutions that are downright lethal!

Jon

This isnt for the clearance issue as that can be resolved using military shackles. this is for additional lift.

alternatively, gettin hold of cranked track rod ends. but these are designed for kit cars and probably wont stand the pace. or using rose joints so that the track rod can mounted on the underside ( but this would serverly comprimise ground clearance).

i know what you mean about lethal... some of the stress's people think they can impose. thats why i wanted to get the opinion of Mr ibex who would have put it through its paces.

it must be possible though, as alot of toyotas use cranked trank rod arms to clear items such as diff pans.

[Jon White]

Yes, toyotas use cranked track rods to clear diff pans etc, but this is when the track rod is in front of the axle. The rod is therefore in tension when you are going forwards down the road, so the bend is less of a problem. However when its behind the axle the track rod goes into compression and hence needs to be straight.

How about fitting the damper to the drag link. Would this solve the problem?

Cheers

Jon

[Mark90]

Surely most force is put through the steering rods when turning at no/low speeds, and then compression or tension depends on which way you are turning.

[MECCANO]

Yes, toyotas use cranked track rods to clear diff pans etc, but this is when the track rod is in front of the axle. The rod is therefore in tension when you are going forwards down the road, so the bend is less of a problem. However when its behind the axle the track rod goes into compression and hence needs to be straight.

How about fitting the damper to the drag link. Would this solve the problem?

Cheers

Jon

sorry i think im confusing the matter. essentially what im trying to do is get a 20mm displacement at the tips of the track rod so that i can gain a little more clearnace above the leaf springs so im not dependant on military shackles. basically creating a standard series ride height.

this is difficult to describe so bare with me:

At the moment im running the front range rover axle with the +20mm at 3 degrees castor. to compensate for this i put military shcakles on which increases it to 6 degree castor but still less ground clearance from under leaf.

ive modelled the axle and foudn that if you reset the castor from 6 degrees back to 3 you could remove the 20mm blocks.

the problem is if you remove the military shackles you would effectively have 0 degree castor and it would all be a bit dodgy

because the lwt wings are basically set lower than a normal series reducing the size of tire you can have before you start bending things, it means i need to add more lift, particualrly on the front. i know tonks running 34 inch, and your using something nearer but alot wider... i think

to get this lift i'm going to have to extend the front dumb irons, which would have the same effect on castor as putting it on standard shackles. so i would also have to make up rear shackles that also extended equally to that of the dumb iron...

but if i could sort out the track rod clearance issue i could just extend the front dumb iron with out having to do the shackle as well.

If that hasnt sent you sleep i dont know what will.

i agree with mark 90 on the tension compression due to turning but i think jon was considering when you hit bumps where the force is equal on both wheels backwards.

[Jon White]

Yep - I hear exactly what you're saying. I dont think theres any way to get away from the military shackles.

tonk has extended the front shackles on the chassis mounts as well as running 1 tonne shackles. I'm just running 1 tonne shackles on the standard swb chassis mounts. Tonk has had problems with the U/j's binding on his props however.

Only other suggestion I could make that i considered was the fitting of a LHD O/s swivel housing. This would then give you a mount on both sides in front of the axle. You'd have to drill the tapers out and rose joint it, and on the n/s simply stack the two rod ends onto the one mounting hole. Alternately I've see it done on a few trucks where they've simply mounted the track rod this way, and the drag link mounts onto the track rod via a bracket welded on to is part way along its length.

Frankly in my opinion neither are "properly engineered" solutions.

As I've said before, Tonk and i looked into this at length, and we could not come up with a solution to it that we felt was properly enginered, that didnt compromise ground clearance.

The only other way I've ever seen this done is by using a 20mm thick spacer between the top of the leaves and the bottom of the axle, this then gives sufficient clearance and correct castor angles etc. However it does compromise ground clearance.

Tyres wise mark is running 34" Simex and i'm running 285/75 grizzlies which come out at 33".

Jon

[Andy]

Alternately I've see it done on a few trucks where they've simply mounted the track rod this way, and the drag link mounts onto the track rod via a bracket welded on to is part way along its length.

if i've read that right it sounds like how the only j**p ive ever looked under was made stock. so the track rod was infront of the axle & effectivly spilt into a Y with one leg going to the steering box.

[MECCANO]

tonk has extended the front shackles on the chassis mounts as well as running 1 tonne shackles. I'm just running 1 tonne shackles on the standard swb chassis mounts. Tonk has had problems with the U/j's binding on his props however.

Cheers Jon you have been most helpful. do you know if Tonk extended the dumb irons to a specific dimension or jsut used 1 ton irons?

i was thinking about using the wobbly devices gon2far manufacture.

i meant to say. out of all the potential solutions im trying to approach it from the less leathal method. after all a bent track rod has to be considerably less dangerous than the weld holding the conneting bracket between the drag and track rod essentially rendering your self helpless in the situation.

Chris

[Jon White]

They were a specific dimention but I cant remeber what it was. I know he had several attempts at it before he got it right! He's in Ireland this week, but I'm sure he'll answer you when he's back.

Cheers

Jon

[simonr]

A solution to the welding thing is to weld on a gusset at either end, then weld a small exhaust clamp to each end of the gussett so it looks like it's clamped on rather than welded.

Si

[Justin_T]

if i wanted to make a track rod i would need a tap, correct?

does anyone know what the thread is?

[Jon White]

Er..........you need two - on Right hand thread one left hand thread.

IIRC its something daft like 9/16 UNS and no thats not a typo - UNS is Unified Special.

By that read special, not a standard thread, not easy to get hold of and ludicrously expensive!

I seem to recall someone on here pricing the taps and it was in the region of £100 for the pair.

Jon

[Mark90]

I think the thread is 19tpi, but that's just from memory so it could be, and probably is, wrong

[dirtydiesel]

Yes, toyotas use cranked track rods to clear diff pans etc, but this is when the track rod is in front of the axle. The rod is therefore in tension when you are going forwards down the road, so the bend is less of a problem. However when its behind the axle the track rod goes into compression and hence needs to be straight.

G wagons have a "cranked" drag link fitted to the rear of the axle, as do unimogs.

Get your self a let hand drive swivel housing for the O/S, and either stack rose joints, or copy the suzuki lj80 system or the early cj jeep system.

[Justin_T]

Er..........you need two - on Right hand thread one left hand thread.

IIRC its something daft like 9/16 UNS and no thats not a typo - UNS is Unified Special.

By that read special, not a standard thread, not easy to get hold of and ludicrously expensive!

I seem to recall someone on here pricing the taps and it was in the region of £100 for the pair.

Jon

thanks for that, i will look into getting them.

[Tonk]

Cheers Jon you have been most helpful. do you know if Tonk extended the dumb irons to a specific dimension or jsut used 1 ton irons?

i was thinking about using the wobbly devices gon2far manufacture.

i meant to say. out of all the potential solutions im trying to approach it from the less leathal method. after all a bent track rod has to be considerably less dangerous than the weld holding the conneting bracket between the drag and track rod essentially rendering your self helpless in the situation.

Chris

i extended both spring chassis mounts downwards by 45mm. i couldn't go any further cos the yoke bind on the rear prop was already giving me problems cos the transmission fitted is longer than standard. i have one tonne shackles at back and did have them on the rear of the front springs, have now replaced them with unfolding shackles which has led me to yoke bind on front prop now aswell

personally i wouldn't use the swivelly mounts on the front springs cos i think this would make for an unstable vehicle on road

[MECCANO]

replaced them with unfolding shackles which has led me to yoke bind on front prop now aswell

personally i wouldn't use the swivelly mounts on the front springs cos i think this would make for an unstable vehicle on road

Are they your own unfolding ( as your that crazy sorta guy) revolvers.. what ever you wanna call them. or did you get them from gon2far?

Are they the same length as military shackles on the front when in folded state?

Also is it not the point of the gon 2 far wobblers, that they can be locked out on the road... or are they just not up to the job? i can see the potential for them to loose the rigidness of the front end set up due to all the joints and tollerances.

hopfully i shouldnt have much problem with the yolkes on the front diff due to the pitched diff nose.

Out of interest how much have you had to shorten your rear prop to run the lt77/series transfer?

[Tonk]

front shackles i made myself

folded they are same length as military shackles (140mm iirc)

unfolded they are about 210 or 220

gon2far front swivelers can be locked out whilst on road but i cant be bothered to lock/unlock all the time, i believe that gon2far ones u have to screw in a screw to lock em, not much fun when covered in mud i would suspect.

had to shorten rear prop by about 110mm for the lt77/series transbox conversion

[Jon White]

108mm if you want to be pedantic!

:-)

[MECCANO]

Just as i thought...

Nutter

Does chopping off 108mm not give you any isues with vibration at cruising speed?