Oh Dear...

[Retroanaconda]

Bugger. It just gets better and better

It would appear that the rear axle pinion bearing has given up on my 110. Driving on a short (70-mile) trip yesterday, I noticed when I got there that the whole rear underside of the car was covered in EP90, and it was sprayed all up the back door as well.

OK, so a big oil leak from rear diff nose. Let's hope it makes it home.

Well it made it home okay, but on further inspection today I have found that the rear prop has play in the second UJ (the first being the one I swapped a little while ago) AND the sliding joint (that wasn't there before...). There is also a fair amount of play in the diff flange, which I assume to be the pinion bearing and the cause of the mahoosive leak. I'm thinking that the prop has caused the damage here, most likely.

Either way, I need to fix it fast, as I NEED the car for a trip at the end of the month. Clearly I need to replace the prop, simple enough. However, I have never played with Salisbury axles before, so need some advice from you guys please.

My options:

1. Replace pinion bearing and seal in existing axle (is this possible, I know the seal can be done but what about the bearing?)
2. Swap whole axle for disc-braked unit
3. Swap whole axle for drum-braked unit and swap over my discs/hubs/calipers/etc.

Does anybody have any advice?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

4. Swap the axle for a late (Post 2005) 110 P38 Short Nose / Wolfe unit, gain disk brakes and a diff

othwer than the salisbury which is tricky to work on and expensive - prioce up head / Tail bearing

and then scream quitely

110 P38 Short Nose axle complete is nuts and bolts upgrade, and take the prop as you'll need that as well

Check ebay, they can be very cheap

Nige

[Off Road Toad]

You could replace the bearing and seal BUT if its been running that loose then chances are you've damaged the pinion teeth and ring gear teeth. whilst you may not see visible signs ie teeth broken or missing, it will have worn them incorrectly and it may well whine badly when re-set.

Are you sure it's not just the pinion nut thats come undone? worth a look first to save some cash.

Steve

[Retroanaconda]

Nige: That sounds like a good option, if I can find one cheap

Steve: I will get the prop off and have a check of that tomorrow. Thanks.

To be honest, I can live with a bit of a whine. I'll pull it apart tomorrow anyway and have a look.

@£&%ing Land Rovers!

[western]

or you could buy this one from our for sale forum http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=57479

[Retroanaconda]

I've sent the chap a PM Ralph, it is a 300 mile trip away though, so the cost would be quite high.

Will have to see what tomorrow's investigation brings

[western]

I've sent the chap a PM Ralph, it is a 300 mile trip away though, so the cost would be quite high.

Will have to see what tomorrow's investigation brings

a forum relay might get it to you.

hope it's not to serious.

[Aragorn]

I've seen drum braked axles sell on ebay for buttons.

I paid about 40quid iirc for mine, and its in excellent condition. Very little play in the diff, and no wear on the shafts or splines.

I'm converting it to disks at the moment, just waiting on the bits arriving, but if you've already got a disk braked axle you should be able to simply swap everything over from the old one.

[Retroanaconda]

I think the quickest option right now will be to swap the axle over. Am in the process of obtaining a drum-braked one, which I will swap my disc brakes on to (might as well change the discs and pads while I'm doing it, since they're knackered and now also covered in oil (so that's what the disc guards are for....)). Then bolt back in under the car.

That's £100 odd I won't get back, bloody thing

Thanks to all for suggestions/advice etc.

[western]

would be the quickest way to get back on the road.

[Retroanaconda]

Okay, swapped the rear axle today. The one one's pinion bearing is so massively fubar-ed that the oil was literally flowing out past what used to be the seal. The flange moves nearly 1/4" from side to side

The cause was the rear prop, which has a horrific amount of play in the centre sliding joint, as well as one of the UJs. Bit annoyed with myself for not noticing either of these defects when I had the thing off to change the other UJ but a few weeks ago. Hey ho, never mind.

Check out my awesome new tyres, nothing fills out the arches on a 110 like some 6.00x16s!

They were on there because it makes pushing the axles around a lot easier that with dirty great BFGs on there.

Up goes the back of the truck (forklifts make this so easy!):

So axle swapped over, all good. Going to swap the hubs/discs over tomorrow when the new brake parts arrive, and then sort out some new brake lines and a new breather pipe

.......

However, when I changed the wheels on the old axle over to the 6.00s I noticed that there is a horrendous amount of play in the rear wheel bearings! I could literally wiggle the tyre about 1/2" at each side. The is clearly the cause of my 'two-pump' brake problem, but how on earth does it get this bad without the wheel falling off at 65mph on the motorway, or without any warning signs at all!

Hopefully they will just tighten up and it hasn't done them any damage. If not then I'll remove the bearings from the (drum brake) hubs on the new axle and use those. And if they're knackered as well, then I'll just have to buy new ones

[western]

if you get time while swapping the drum to disc brakes a few photo's of the caliper brackets & general fit process would be appreciated.

it's a job I want to do on my rear axle, just need to buy the discs & bacplates.

[Retroanaconda]

I'm in the process of taking some measurements and photographs for Aragorn, who is undertaking the same as you say Ralph.

I am not sure whether my disc-braked axle is a genuine disc unit, or a converted drum one. It has the older wide-style drive members on, so it may have been from a cross-over period vehicle (a 1994 apparently).

If it is a converted drum one then it will have a spacer between casing and caliper bracket, so I'll find out tomorrow when I do the swap

[western]

That would be great, Thanks

[Bush65]

4. Swap the axle for a late (Post 2005) 110 P38 Short Nose / Wolfe unit, gain disk brakes and a diff

othwer than the salisbury which is tricky to work on and expensive - prioce up head / Tail bearing

and then scream quitely

110 P38 Short Nose axle complete is nuts and bolts upgrade, and take the prop as you'll need that as well

Check ebay, they can be very cheap

Nige

Here in Aus, a not uncommon mod with post 2005 Defender 110's, is to replace the weak P38 style diff with an earlier Salisbury.

Some of the 2007 and later models to have had 2 or more rear diffs replaced under warranty. Their problem is mainly noise and vibration or clunking, but from practically stock vehicles (usually simple mods like snorkle or bull bar and nothing to affect warranty) not being used hard. The 2005 to 2007 TD5's are seeing more severe diff failures.

Is there a reason why the P38 style would be better in the UK than in Aus?

[Bush65]

Okay, swapped the rear axle today. The one one's pinion bearing is so massively fubar-ed that the oil was literally flowing out past what used to be the seal. The flange moves nearly 1/4" from side to side

The cause was the rear prop, which has a horrific amount of play in the centre sliding joint, as well as one of the UJs. Bit annoyed with myself for not noticing either of these defects when I had the thing off to change the other UJ but a few weeks ago. Hey ho, never mind.

...

I find it hard to believe that your prop shaft has caused the wear to your pinion bearings. Bearings, including diff and wheel bearings have a finite life, but premature wear is most likely due to poor lubrication or contamination.

Common sources of contamination leading to bearing failure are dust/dirt/water ingress through seals and breathers. Dust, mud and dirty water impinge on the seal lips causing wear to the point where contaminants can enter. Good, clean breathers are needed if entering water with a hot diff/axle assembly - even better is to pressurise the inside of the diff/axle if you have to make frequent water crossings.

There is no substitute for good maintenance and regular inspection to avoid these problems. Checking (and changing if required) oil in diffs, swivels and wheel hubs at earliest, practical opportunity after deep water crossings should come under normal maintenance.

[Retroanaconda]

I find it hard to believe that your prop shaft has caused the wear to your pinion bearings. Bearings, including diff and wheel bearings have a finite life, but premature wear is most likely due to poor lubrication or contamination.

Common sources of contamination leading to bearing failure are dust/dirt/water ingress through seals and breathers. Dust, mud and dirty water impinge on the seal lips causing wear to the point where contaminants can enter. Good, clean breathers are needed if entering water with a hot diff/axle assembly - even better is to pressurise the inside of the diff/axle if you have to make frequent water crossings.

There is no substitute for good maintenance and regular inspection to avoid these problems. Checking (and changing if required) oil in diffs, swivels and wheel hubs at earliest, practical opportunity after deep water crossings should come under normal maintenance.

That may well be the case. I have only had the vehicle for a short period of time, but I have had to do a bit of corrective maintenance to various parts (front and rear axles, steering, brakes, transfer box). The loose wheel bearings I found may well point to a somewhat neglected rear axle.

With regard to the cause of my pinion failure (it's not actually as bad as I thought, the prop being on must have amplified the play's 'feel') I'm sure I've read of imbalanced props causing damage to transfer box output and pinion bearings? Either way it needs a rebuild, which I will tackle in the future and then probably convert it to disks and sell it on.

I have come across some peculiarities with my hubs, which I'll post another topic for.