You won't be able to scrap a car yourself.

[David Sparkes]

OK, I've lifted this off another forum, but I haven't seen it go though here, and I would have expected enough comments to keep it bubbling into the 'New Content' Search results.

Of course it relates to NEW V5Cs, so won't hit the vehicles we generally play with now, but in 5 or 10 years time the youngsters will have to work that bit harder to enjoy the same hobby they or their fathers enjoy now.

“From the 15 August 2010 all V5C’s that are issued by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) will have a new look. The new V5C will make it clear that the registration certificate is not proof of ownership and will provide details of where you can get advice on buying a used vehicle.

The ‘scrap’ box has also been removed because all cars, light vans and three-wheeled motor vehicles- excluding motor tricycles, must be taken to an Authorised Treatment Facility, who should issue a Certificate of Destruction (CoD). Vehicles other than those already mentioned, should still be taken to an ATF to ensure they are destroyed to environmental standards. Anyone keeping the vehicle but breaking it up for parts, etc, should make a Statutory off Road Notification (SORN) to let DVLA know that the vehicle is being kept unlicensed and off the road.

Anyone with the existing blue version need not do anything as both types of document are still valid.

DVLA’s ‘Buyer Beware’ message advises that the V5C is only one of the things that buyers of used vehicles need to check. By making buyers aware of the risks, the DVLA’s aim is to help them to protect themselves and reduce the risk of getting caught out by criminals.

For more information on the V5c and the Buyer Beware consumer protection initiative, go to www.direct.gov.uk/buyerbeware“

[western]

The new V5C will make it clear that the registration certificate is not proof of ownership

V5 never has been Proof of ownership only that the parson named on it is the registered keeper, which is absolutly stupid IMHO

& why does it need

and will provide details of where you can get advice on buying a used vehicle

everybody knows where they can be a used vehicle, we don't need a bit of paper to tell us that

must be taken to an Authorised Treatment Facility, who should issue a Certificate of Destruction (CoD).

information of these places would be more useful, where is a list of these & what does a Certificate of Destruction (CoD). look like, another bit of worthless paper when the 'scrapped' box on the V5 is/was perfectly adequete.

more here -- http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/ChangesToYourRegistrationCertificate/DG_4022057

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/RegisteringAVehicle/DG_189329

& http://buyerbeware.direct.gov.uk/v5c/index.html

[Aragorn]

Its not just for new vehicles, its for all V5's issued by the DVLA from now on... So it will affect us!

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/regulation/65470.aspx/

Thing is, it doesnt say you cant dismantle a car for spares yourself, just that whats left must be taken to an ATF, and you'll probably find most scrap yards that will take cars will be ATF's anyway. It also says the ATF's must take the car for free.

[western]

the 'new' red V5 will be issued to exsting blue V5 owners if they send in the blue V5 for amendment [like address change] both V5's are fully legal.

[HoggyN]

Thing is, it doesnt say you cant dismantle a car for spares yourself, just that whats left must be taken to an ATF, and you'll probably find most scrap yards that will take cars will be ATF's anyway. It also says the ATF's must take the car for free.

What I'd like to know is just what is the minimum amount of vehicle the will ATF accept. I can't see them issuing a CoD in exchange for a gear knob and a pair of number plates.

Also the intent behind these new regulations is to wipe out unauthorised vehicle dismantlers. At what point does a private individual selling off unwanted parts on Ebay (for example) from a car bought for spares become an 'unauthorised dismantler?

[Aragorn]

What I'd like to know is just what is the minimum amount of vehicle the will ATF accept. I can't see them issuing a CoD in exchange for a gear knob and a pair of number plates.

Also the intent behind these new regulations is to wipe out unauthorised vehicle dismantlers. At what point does a private individual selling off unwanted parts on Ebay (for example) from a car bought for spares become an 'unauthorised dismantler?

Thing is, your always going to be left with a bodyshell/chassis or whatever?

As for selling parts off, its a pretty wide question. I guess its at a similar point to when the tax man decides your "selling some parts on ebay" is actually a business.

[hobson]

it doesn't seem that much different to me, for a couple of years now they've been phasing out the old school scrapper and turning them into ATF's, last time i went into a scrapper they had an old astra up on the ramps draining the fluids, so the ATF thing isn't new.

it just looks like the same routine but with more beaurocracy.

I mean, if you took a chassis, with a few random bits to a scrapper now you'd raise some eyebrows...

i suppose they'll be releasing some suitably cryptic guidelines as to what constitutes a vehicle around the time the change comes into effect

[HoggyN]

i suppose they'll be releasing some suitably cryptic guidelines as to what constitutes a vehicle around the time the change comes into effect

That's today!

[hobson]

Dear me, for a second there i was a year behind! well that being the case i'll revise:

no doubt they'll release some suitably cryptic guidelines around the time no-one can figure out what constitutes a vehicle and there are lots of vehicles in various states of being broken stored on peoples drives unable to be scrapped!

or, perhaps they'll go on the points system we have now...

[Retroanaconda]

If I was breaking up a car for parts, I would be taking the resulting chassis or bodyshell to a metal merchant who would give me £25, or whatever it's value as scrap metal was, for it.

If it transpires that I would be forced by law to take it to an ATF, well that's a bit rubbish really

[hobson]

I think Landys are a bit unique in this respect as they're one of the few vehicles which can be easily broken down to component parts by most reasonably competent mechanics, and as the chassis is the main identity part i think that'll be the problem area.

whats needed now to scrap a vehicle? do you need to send off number plates or VIN plates? or do the DVLA just take your word for it?

[Aragorn]

I suspect that most metal merchants will only take cars (or parts thereof) if they're registered ATF's. I suspect the environment agency would come down on them if their yard was full off scrap cars without them being part of the legally required scheme.

They need to be registered even if they're dealing with already "decontaminated" vehicles.

The scrap metal place down the road from me (Foulds Metals) certainly ask for the V5 if your weighing a car in, so presumably that indicates they're registered ATF's?

[zoltan]

Have they found those 500,000 blank V5's yet? No, thought not....

[Retroanaconda]

So what's the difference between weighing in a complete car chassis or body shell, and weighing in a cut up one, which is basically just a load of steel pieces?

[plasticbadger]

To me this is another load of government bull s*&?t aimed to stop enthusiasts saving the environment by preventing them from cheaply recycling car parts to keep old vehicles on the road.

I've been caught out by the current system and have been fined for not informing the DVLA that I scrapped a car, I have 10+ V5s in my name for cars that have been broken down to totally re-sold pieces, including monocoque body shells sold for re-shelling and repair panels. To prevent 'ringing' I have many of those car's VINs and plates with the V5's - maybe I should take those to my local ATF. I'm just about to sell all the remaining bits of my Chevy 3500 to a guy for use in his project, less ID. What do I take to the ATF?! About the only one I did properly was my Discovery that when I weighed in most of the body and chassis I was issued with this 'CoD' which consisted of some scribbled words on the scrap man's headed note pad.

I think the whole system is actually open to as much abuse as the current one, yet makes it more difficult for genuinue enthusiasts to enjoy their hobby. I mean with my chevy, what do I do? Every single part has been used on my truck, or sold, except some small parts of the chassis, do I keep it on SORN for ever?

[western]

find your area VRO office & ask them what you need to do. pass the buck back to DVLA to advise you.

[hobson]

According to a DVLA guide: DVLA site

Do You Have a Scrapped or Written Off Vehicle?

You should only tell the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) that your vehicle has been scrapped if you actually break it up or destroy it yourself. If the vehicle being written off, the insurance company will notify DVLA on your behalf.

Breaking the Vehicle Up Yourself

If you break or destroy the vehicle yourself, you need to notify DVLA by completing the ‘scrapped’ box on the registration document or certificate and enter the date of scrapping. Send the certificate to DVLA, Swansea SA99 1BA.

Selling the vehicle for Scrap

Scrap dealers and vehicle dismantlers are now known as authorised treatment facilities (ATFs), they will treat end of life vehicles in an environmentally friendly manner. If you pass your vehicle to an ATF and it is destroyed immediately, hand in your registration certificate. Certain types of vehicles, including cars and vans up to 3,500kgs, will be issued with a certificate of destruction (CoD). If the vehicle is not to be destroyed, you should fill in the V5C/3 section of the registration certificate to transfer keepership to the ATF. Send the V5/3C to DVLA, Swansea SA99 1BD.

seems like they take your word for it then...

[FFR]

Hi,

In Spain an old car remains registered (and pay taxes) unless it is exported out of the country, it is reported as stolen, or you get a CoD from an authorized decontamination business. It is supposed that the car must arrive "complete" to the decontamination business, so you are not allowed to dismantle it at your backyard.

The system states that this is done thinking in my security, to fight against the global warming, to decrease the number of fatalities in the road, to make things in the same way that is done in Europe... you know all this s**t

Welcome to Europe,

Carlos

[Aragorn]

TBH, IF they start being deliberately awkward, all that will happen is folk will dispose of the vehicles illegally.

The whole point of the ATF "network" is to protect the environment, and to try to get rid of the "illegal" unlicensed breakers/scrappies who may not be properly draining/collecting the various fluids and causing pollution etc.

If they try to stop genuine people scrapping cars that they've dismantled or partially dismantled themselves, then those folk will be forced to find a way round the problem, and so will end up taking their scrap to unlicensed yards who dont care about what the bureaucracy says.

[sgnas]

Problem solved...

New Keeper

Forename Alan

Surname Pikey

Address The green caravan in that nice field you would never get planning permission on now filled with utter £$%^.

[disco2hse]

Problem solved...

New Keeper

Forename Alan

Surname Pikey

Address The green caravan in that nice field you would never get planning permission on now filled with utter £$%^.

Leave it on the side of the road, put a match to it, and report it as stolen. Let the council clean it up and do the paperwork.

[plasticbadger]

Leave it on the side of the road, put a match to it, and report it as stolen. Let the council clean it up and do the paperwork.

Although I really like your thinking (I knew there was a reason for council tax) it still wouldn't solve my problem of not actually having anything left to burn!

[Lara]

Very easy loophole / solution to all of this,

Not going to post it on here fo them to read though and subsequently close!

But don't worry, it's easy big enough for a Landy to drive through as long as you do "Break" it!

Lara

[landmannnn]

Problem solved...

New Keeper

Forename Alan

Surname Pikey

Address The green caravan in that nice field you would never get planning permission on now filled with utter £$%^.

That would work.

[disco2hse]

Although I really like your thinking (I knew there was a reason for council tax) it still wouldn't solve my problem of not actually having anything left to burn!

hehe

Or do what the yanks do. Stick the vin and plates on a different piece of trash (you know, something like a Morris Marina - saves wasting pianos on them). But then leave that on the side of the road,...