Jump to content

The thing about forums is.....


NicTheOrange90

Recommended Posts

  1. Have read only areas that explain in text and photo/graphics what owning a Land Rover (model) is all about; the history and basic mechanics
  2. Servicing guides (again read only in text and pictures) that explain with as much detail as is needed; basic servicing techniques
  3. Modifications and their implications (ie if you increase your suspension the following will be effected) again, read only.
  4. Areas for suppliers to discuss new products and ask for advice/ give discounts

A lot of the history, basic mechanics, servicing guides, etc. are already published on the interwebs. So why not build a list of links? If you use a wiki most seem to have ranking functions on them so people can "vote" for what they like, or not.

A suppliers promo section is a good idea. That is usually frowned on by most forums.

The reason for read only is to preserve the guides intact so that if a new visitor comes to the site for the first tme on day one or day 301 they would not have to trawl through reams of stuff. The benefits would be a decrease in the amount of repeat posts we all see from newcomers (who are very welcome). It would be up to mods to request servicing guides from members and each guide could be rated by its readers. It would not be unreasonable to have a business sponsor or two for some parts.

A good search engine on the site would solve most of these issues.

Also RSS feeds on all forums that mean their contents would be readble on email readers.

Top idea! I am trying to aggregate RSS aggregators into my gmail interface. I am registered on lots of forums and simply forget to check on them all, all the time.

Alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a wiki would be an excellent idea, for a number of reasons.

It's usually hard to trawl through a collection of links, but a wiki has an intro paragraph - which for many is enough information. Then it can expand to a fully detailed explanation on the topic. If you then want to read the LR4x4 thread(s) that are the source of the information, they can be linked at the bottom

A few years ago, I wrote a buyer's guide for defenders. This was based solely on my experience of owning a 200tdi for a number of years. At the time, I asked people to contribute to the guide to expand it for the 2.5TD, TD5 etc, but this never happened.

If this guide was complete, I think it'd be a great resource for everyone. A wiki format would be much easier for a large collaborative guide like this to evolve.

At the moment, in the first few months of TD5 ownership, I'm reading up on the electronics of the engine, and what happens when a specific sensor goes south. Again, this would be a suitable candidate for a collaborative effort.

Just because information is already on the web or in the tech archive, is not a reason not to create a wiki, because it is a format that works very well. I personally go to Wikipedia as a first port of call for all my info, apart from LR stuff, where I go here :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you need a machine to host a wiki on i have a dedicated box i could create a vhost on to run it.

Keep it simple with a fairly stock MediaWiki install and only create user accounts for the mods/admins to edit things, would be pretty easy to set it up!

You'd only need to create a subdomain ("wiki.lr4x4.com" for instance) and point it at the box, then fill it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see a few issues here and a few easy and not so easy solutions. I know most/all require effort, time & know-how which may or may not be available.

1. The search function sucks

OK, a few thoughts here:

- Put a sticky post or link on the search page to "how to use google"

- Have a looksee if there is a better search plugin for the forum

- Remove the bl**dy annoying flood protection & n-character limit for established users (eg more than a couple of posts). These would make searching easier & faster so more people would persevere with it rather than post the same question again.

- A bit more proactive moderation, merging/stickying/indexing threads about the same thing (EG 200tdi conversions in the Series/Defender forums, which tyres to buy in every damn forum, etc.)

2. Banter / fear of moderation

- Could it be time for the often-touted-always-rejected "off topic" forum?

3. Flaming of newbies

- I could stop posting :P

- A more prominent FAQ / newbie initiation guide visible in every forum with links to the tech archive etc. plus how to search, how to ask a sensible question, etc. may deflect a lot of the common repeated newbie questions.

4. Too much information

- A wiki as an evolution of the tech archive may be a great idea for some stuff, but obviously requires maintenance.

- Again, merging & moving threads and adding frequently posted questions to some sort of FAQ index (slightly different to the tech archive), either per forum or globally, could help people find answers or at least keep everything in one thread, eg one "tyres" thread per forum...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our work intranet uses google as its search engine but it only searches the intranet domain, not outside of it. Is it not possible to do something like that with the forum?

I dont think much lets this forum down other than the search function.

Some banter is good (sometimes it seems a little bit over moderated on here) but it must get like the off topic stuff that constantly ruins threads in the LRO forum - over there if you ever ask a question on the readers forum, because it doesnt fit in a vehicle specific one, it is soon swamped with nonsense and not worth looking at again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In terms of the search function, i never use any boards provided search. They never work.

Instead just go to google and type this:

site:thewebsite.com your search terms here

so to search lr4x4.com for all things megajolt i would type:

site:lr4x4.com megajolt

note you dont need the w's before lr4x4, but i dont think they will break it if you include them.

A wiki would be great for the tech archive! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doesnt always work though, because lets say you want to search for "V8 Gearbox" in the Defender section of the forum...

you might construct a google search term like so: "site:lr4x4.com defender V8 Gearbox"

Unfortunately the word defender appears on every single page, because it appears in the little dropdown thing at the bottom of the screen. So you'll get a pile of useless results. The forums native search engine has the ability to limit the searches to only the defender section of the forum, but doesnt seem capable of finding results that contain both V8 and Gearbox, so you end up with a pile of threads about V8's and a Pile about gearboxes.

Having just said all that, the forum search DOES seem to be a lot better than i remember it, and searching for "V8 Gearbox" in the defender forum did infact give me a pile of useful threads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Doesnt always work though, because lets say you want to search for "V8 Gearbox" in the Defender section of the forum...

you might construct a google search term like so: "site:lr4x4.com defender V8 Gearbox"

Unfortunately the word defender appears on every single page, because it appears in the little dropdown thing at the bottom of the screen. So you'll get a pile of useless results. The forums native search engine has the ability to limit the searches to only the defender section of the forum, but doesnt seem capable of finding results that contain both V8 and Gearbox, so you end up with a pile of threads about V8's and a Pile about gearboxes.

Hmm, I just tried it and the first of results all look useful to me?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have followed this thread with great interest. I believe forums are a still-maturing technology and all can be improved with better search, wiki and the like, without us having to end up with a Land Rover Face-Twitter-Book.:P

To gush a little, the great thing about this forum, in contrast to all other Land Rover related ones I have found, is that it is authoritative. If you properly understand and fully follow a Technical Archive procedure fully, you will get it right. If you take advice offered on any thread, you will nearly always get it right.

On here people are clear whether they thinking about doing something, are doing it, or have done it, learned the lessons and are passing them on. I find this clarity very rare on the internet where the anonymity allows people to appear to be experts about things of which they have little knowledge and no experience.

In short you can trust what you read on here, mostly.

Regarding the forum becoming stale, I feel we have three things to help:

1. Land Rover brings out new vehicles and we want to run them and fix them; so questions about Series vehicles reduce as questions about 200TDi's and 300TDi's arise which in turn give way to TD5 problems and so on

2. As we all learn, we find new and better ways to do things, people to buy from, and avoid, new sources of good information. And on here people share these things in a way that can be trusted.

3. Finally we have new members, some inexperienced, some who have been doing it for years, all of whom might just one day find a much better way of doing something; in the words of the late Carroll Smith "invent a better moustrap".

So I would urge patience with newbie's and people asking the same question again and again. There might just be a nugget in there which could be easily missed.

And after all we are all fallible. I have an engineering degree, 27 years of nuclear submarine engineering experience, 5 years of DIY Defender ownership and 354 posts on here. Last week I asked a simple question. On getting 88 views and 0 replies, I realised my question was poorly set out, and pretty stupid. I then looked more carefully in the Technical Archive and got most of what I needed, supplemented by a generous pm (thanks again BogMonster). So however much we know there is always something on here to learn.

I applaud thoughts to make searching easier and the knowledge more accessible. But the value of this forum is the superb quality of contribution by all.

If you got this far, thanks for reading.

Reagrds

Richard

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Speaking as a mere tyrolichus casei, the forums can be a daunting place for a newcomer. I speak (type) from the perspective of being a caseus vetus on other forums where, by virtue of longevity, I've been frustrated by answering the same newbie questions and the apparent lack of research before posting. (enough of the latin cheese references (too much g##gling] now and, hopefully, more to the point).

We live in an instant gratification society now. g**gle has sold the benefits of a complex and comprehensive search engine to the masses. On lr4x4 you have to dig deep and search to find answers. So who has the patience to do that? Result- same old questions. My point is that there are 2 cultures here. The old hands, where this is a social network, and the newbies, where they've fallen into LR ownership by choice or accident.

Both parties have to be catered for. The old hands want to both socialise and to pass on their hard gained experience- hopefully just the once, and the newbies, with a smouldering heap outside the house that may result in a divorce, want to get it on the road ASAP.

Bottom line is that both sides need each other. The social side "keeps it real", the guidance side brings people in and gives them a sense of belonging and a chance to move up to maybe being a caseus vetus (sorry- cheese ref again) one day.

Just my thoughts- getting my coat and hiding in the corner waiting for a slap. :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...... . and the newbies, with a smouldering heap outside the house that may result in a divorce, want to get it on the road ASAP.

................

Exellent early post chap :) if I may say, very true

except the bit above, their are some more than established members here that are in that camp

However, and interesting thread, esp round the LR4x4 serch engine that as a mod drives me to ARRRGGGH times more that regularly

Keep the thoughts coming

Nige

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was over here the other night:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=103

As a template (ignore the fact its BMW :ph34r: ), this forum works well.... It uses google for searches - they work! - I typed in thermistor and 20 related posts were returned. It has a wiki setup as well (Dont know how that works). I also dont know how much these things cost, so a lot of it might not be an option. (p.s. My username over there is the same as here, so if anyone knows about thermistors, advice would be appreciated! :P )

Other than the google and wiki bits though, lr4x4 seems to work in a very similar way to the BMW forum on the surface and doesnt need much else changing.

The newbie/old hand thing is going to occur from time to time. I've mentioned it before, but i still think the 'New members READ THIS' section needs highlighting to new members more than just being stuck at the top of each page for them to miss. I cant remember if it happened, but perhaps it needs to be sent in the introductory email after registering and a part of it can explain that they need to search rather than ask questions that may have been covered before (a pre-requisite of this is that the search function is improved though and perhpas as a temporary thing, we could give an explanation of how to search lr4x4 using google rather than the inbuilt search function).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have put forward a few ideas before that have had not a great deal of interest but which I will repeat here as this is does seem to be a repository for ideas.

This post should not be taken as a complaint in any way, but in the spirit of putting something in the pot for discussion for consideration.

Firstly the idea of diagnostic charts or descriptions that helps to point where the problem could be so that the tech archive can be used to solve it. For the less "mechanically able or experienced" amongst us that would stop us having to ask the same old question of the sort "my landrover x is making a y noise. Am I going to die?". (Put forward in this thread and picked up by errol209).

The information may be out there but is spread between multiple threads.

This raised the other idea I had which was to try and ask questions my questions in a general way - not about a specific problem that I might have but a broader question - to get a more useful answer for everyone. So for example when a small hole appeared in my cross member I searched on "cross member repair" and got loads of sort of relevant but very specific answers to individual repairs and replacements. What I hoped for was a general response that would help others in the long run by getting for guidelines on when different types of repair. I now know what I need to do with my x-member hole (thanks to all who answered), but the greater question has remained unanswered.

So two ideas there for you:

  • Generic questions and answers
  • diagnostic descriptions (idiots guide to diagnostics)

Over to you to consume, digest, and spit out in whatever form you may wish

Martin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ever thought how long it takes for newbies to be allowed to post on without being moderated?

2 weeks on, owned frustrating LR, maybe a couple of days might have filtered out the unwashed/ unwanted.

Goes back to my views on this being mainly focused on a club for old hands. Let in the newbies....

Not only getting my coat, putting it on, but running away- bravely

:D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ever thought how long it takes for newbies to be allowed to post on without being moderated?

2 weeks on, owned frustrating LR, maybe a couple of days might have filtered out the unwashed/ unwanted.

Goes back to my views on this being mainly focused on a club for old hands. Let in the newbies....

Not only getting my coat, putting it on, but running away- bravely

:D

having post moderation for new members is an essential part of protecting the forum. The delay from submitting your post to it actually appearing is generally not that long. Experience shows that this system works best, it's not in place on a whim and as it is manual is in fact fairly time consuming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

having post moderation for new members is an essential part of protecting the forum. The delay from submitting your post to it actually appearing is generally not that long. Experience shows that this system works best, it's not in place on a whim and as it is manual is in fact fairly time consuming.

Appreciate the manual workload to monitor/ maintain posts and indeed the need to do so. Wondering what you might be protecting the forum from though. Maybe some of us new posters would just like to be accepted and be able to meet like minded people without being artificially blocked for days/ weeks. Scan back to my thoughts at the start of this thread...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The procedure goes quite a way to protect the forum from spammers and scammers. Requiring new users to go pass through a short period of post approval is a proven and effect way of dealing with the issue. There's nothing whatsoever stopping new members being accepted and being able to meet like minded people as their posts will still show up even if there is a short delay in them actually appearing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a moderator on another forum, I whole heartedly agree with the current way it is done. My forum has 3 or 4 spammers per week, some of whom can post some pretty offensive material. If I had the time and a stable internet connection to 'vet' every new member, I would.

We have had our share of stuff you would not want on a family friendly forum as well - most of it is just tat selling cheap mobile phones and soluble trainers but there have been a few examples of rather more offensive stuff.

I would also say that in the forums I moderate, anybody who shows within the first few posts that they are genuine, comes off mod approval pretty quickly. It's hard for anybody who is not genuine to ask genuine questions, they usually manage to stick out like a sore thumb.

Even when busy I try to log in at least twice a day to check for new posts that need approving so days/weeks is definitely an unfair criticism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We use cookies to ensure you get the best experience. By using our website you agree to our Cookie Policy