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Just the other month i had both of my front brake disc replaced on my TD5 110! but they failed very quickly causing bad brake judder! later found out that the disc where Britpart? but because i had them done by a local land rover garage they replaced them under warranty! but they have gone again! not sure why! but i feel it maybe due to poor parts!(or poor fitting)and no its not my driving! i know one or two of you guys think Britpart are no good but i am now getting rather hacked off by having to go back to garage with failed parts and yes its Britpart thats causing the most problems! its not the first time their parts have failed! so from now on i tell them NOT to fit Britpart just in case!

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Depends what's causing the judder? Is it a warped disc, or something else? If it's the disc, why is it warped?

Hi M&S! did a bit of checking up on possible cause of disc problem! been told the condition is called DVT Disc Variation thickness! a warped disc to you and me? can be caused by one of six things.

1.Failure to ensure that mounting surface of brake disc and hub are perfectly clean prior to disc fitting. (possible?)

2.Improper bedding-in of new discs and pads. (Highly unlikely?) (old fart plus i drive like a church priest)

3.Fitting the wrong brake pad compound for your driving style. (Highly unlikely as sold as full kit from LD dealer?)

4.Severe overheating of your brake discs. (Yes thats why i have DVT)

5.Pad etching.(SEE NUMBER 2. ANSWER)

6.Manufacturing errors.(very possible? but surely not twice in a row?)

......any how its a bit of a pain in the hole! the LD garage is as much help as a chocolate fire guard! not sure what to do next? buy a jap 4x4? ha aha sorry just a joke............any input welcome!

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You could when you next change out the disk's and pads get hold of genuine L/R disk's and pads(or another well known branded product) and supply them to the garage and get them to fit them if that's possible?,

Or seeing as you got supplied the britpart disk's etc to rectify your judder-can you not take the vehicle back and ask/tell them to replace them with genuine L/R products?

John

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I believe pattern parts have there uses, where ever possible I try to use non branded original like coopers for filters, Timkins, GKN for bearings, UJ's E.T.C.

I have used some pattern parts and found them to be just as good, over time you get to know what is good and what to avoid.

However there are a few areas where I will not use pattern parts and brakes are one of them it's really not worth the saving.

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One thing that can cause brake judder is the wheel nuts not evenly tensioned.

Another thing is that all new rotors are covered in a thin film of grease, where many mechanics do not bother (or know) to clean this off.

New rotors must be scrubbed and scrubbed again,, with a wax and grease remover until they are perfectly free of any oily substance.

It is rare for the average mechanic to properly clean new rotors.! And that goes for new flywheels as well......

They must be perfectly cleaned so no oily substance is impregnated into particular areas of the disk.

Regards Phil.....

PS: I haven't heard good things said about Britpart,,, but I have never used them myself so I can not debate on that.

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In defence of britpart.

I've used britpart brakes - wheel cylinders on my 109. No problems encountered after 2 years of hard driving.

Whether this continues or not??????????

G.

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No offence, but its entirely possible you've caused it.

When brakes are new, they get much hotter than normal until they've properly bedded in. If you come to a stop with your foot on the brake pedal (ie holding the car at a junction or roundabout, rather than using the handbrake), when the brakes are hot, you can get pad material transfer onto the disk, which makes an area of the disk slightly harder than the rest of it. You can usually also see an outline of the brake pad imprinted into the disks surface.

As the disk begins to wear, these imprints wear more slowly, and hence you get variations in thickness.

Now if you drove it like you stole it, you'd probably have burned off these deposits, but i suspect thats never happened.

If you fancy trying to cure it, you can try bedding the pads in again, and hopefully you'll get the system hot enough to clear the deposits, but it might have gone too far to be able to clear it.

To bed the pads in:

Find a quiet stretch of road and get the truck up to 60mph. Brake firmly down to approx 10mph (not a full on emergency stop, but pretty hard), then accellerate back up to 60 again. Repeat this process 10 times, then once complete, give the truck a nice long drive to cool the brakes down again. You should aim not to stop the vehicle at any point once you've started, as the brakes will be hot and you dont want to transfer more material! If you HAVE to, then release the brake pedal at 5mph and pull up using the handbrake gently. After a bit of a drive to cool it all down, you can repeat the whole process a second time.

Some reading here:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedinstock.shtml

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I agree with Aragorn about the bedding in its a technique i use on my BMW after brake changes and works well (imprinting is a particular problem on the BM as it is an auto and so i have a tendency to hold it more in the footbrake than i should). One important thing though, warm up the discs gently before jumping into the bedding in procedure otherwise if they are too cold initially, this may also cause problems. Bit more reading here:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

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No offence, but its entirely possible you've caused it.

When brakes are new, they get much hotter than normal until they've properly bedded in. If you come to a stop with your foot on the brake pedal (ie holding the car at a junction or roundabout, rather than using the handbrake), when the brakes are hot, you can get pad material transfer onto the disk, which makes an area of the disk slightly harder than the rest of it. You can usually also see an outline of the brake pad imprinted into the disks surface.

As the disk begins to wear, these imprints wear more slowly, and hence you get variations in thickness.

Now if you drove it like you stole it, you'd probably have burned off these deposits, but i suspect thats never happened.

If you fancy trying to cure it, you can try bedding the pads in again, and hopefully you'll get the system hot enough to clear the deposits, but it might have gone too far to be able to clear it.

To bed the pads in:

Find a quiet stretch of road and get the truck up to 60mph. Brake firmly down to approx 10mph (not a full on emergency stop, but pretty hard), then accellerate back up to 60 again. Repeat this process 10 times, then once complete, give the truck a nice long drive to cool the brakes down again. You should aim not to stop the vehicle at any point once you've started, as the brakes will be hot and you dont want to transfer more material! If you HAVE to, then release the brake pedal at 5mph and pull up using the handbrake gently. After a bit of a drive to cool it all down, you can repeat the whole process a second time.

Some reading here:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedinstock.shtml

Hi Old hand! i did think for a mow that it may have been caused by my driving but as i said i do drive my td5 with due care! as both of us are getting on a bit ;) so when the garage replaced them again i even went out my way to take even more care to brake them in????? :lol: but i will try doing what you said and hopefully that will sort it out! Thanks everyone for their input!

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i agree with aragorn. We have the same problem at Merc with our AMG vehicles. Customers go stomping down the road with new brakes get them so hot that after about 2 or 3 thousand miles the customer comes back with horrible brake judder and steering vibrations, fortunately merc pay for us to replace them under warranty. We bed in brakes like reb78 mentioned. What i have noticed at the smaller garages is that they tend not to road test vehicles frequently or for long enough periods. I choose to take a longer test route after brake pad and disc replacement. I know land rover do coat their discs with grease to prevent them from rusting during storage and transport, merc just use a spray primer. I suggest trying aragorns bedding in technique before returning to your garage. Parts like brake discs, even at non genuine factories, will go under stringent quality control.

You say that they failed very quickly, how quick is quick?

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Hi Soylent Green

Reading your posts i dont think its your driving style. You dont sound like the last of the late brakers to me...

I think the garage has replaced with more inferior parts. As said before, when it comes to brakes (more than any other area of the truck) be sure and use genuine parts...

Phil

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i agree with aragorn. We have the same problem at Merc with our AMG vehicles. Customers go stomping down the road with new brakes get them so hot that after about 2 or 3 thousand miles the customer comes back with horrible brake judder and steering vibrations, fortunately merc pay for us to replace them under warranty. We bed in brakes like reb78 mentioned. What i have noticed at the smaller garages is that they tend not to road test vehicles frequently or for long enough periods. I choose to take a longer test route after brake pad and disc replacement. I know land rover do coat their discs with grease to prevent them from rusting during storage and transport, merc just use a spray primer. I suggest trying aragorns bedding in technique before returning to your garage. Parts like brake discs, even at non genuine factories, will go under stringent quality control.

You say that they failed very quickly, how quick is quick?

Hello! failure was about 6 or 7 weeks after new discs & pads went in! around the same time as the second set went in too!

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Ye its just that the deposits build up, so it takes time to occur. You could have caused the problem the first day you drove it home from the garage, and if you then never got the brakes hot enough after that point to burn off the deposits, the disk slowly starts to wear unevenly.

Its not even as need4speed says about being a late braker, its more coming to a stop and holding the brakes on that causes it. Once they're bedded in then you could probably drive like you do and not have a problem, because under normal sedate driving they'll rarely get hot enough to cause material transfer. When they're new however they run hotter due to incomplete pad contact, which is why this can happen straight out the box.

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aragorn is correct. once the bed in process is complete it is a lot harder to "warp" discs. I have used britpart discs and ferodo pads before with no problems but i bed them in by getting them hot but avoiding holding the brakes on when they are hot at stationary. The pad will partially "stick" to the disc. Equally though, you could be having serious bad luck and could have got two inferior britpart sets of discs. Maybe try genuine discs this time. There should be no need to replace the pads aswell, however land rover do spec there pad friction material to their disc, as most manufacturers will recommend, fit genuine with genuine, but i see no reason as to not keep using your britpart pads on the genuine discs.

Another thing that has popped into my head actually, i have seen a set of brand new discs warp because the stickers were not removed from the surface of the inner hub facing surface of the disc, so therefore heat would not be evenly distributed to the hub and the paper sticker had actually blackened from being burnt. Do britpart discs come with stickers on? off hand i cant remember, but these MUST be removed

Hope this helps

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Just the other month i had both of my front brake disc replaced on my TD5 110! but they failed very quickly causing bad brake judder! later found out that the disc where Britpart? but because i had them done by a local land rover garage they replaced them under warranty! but they have gone again! not sure why! but i feel it maybe due to poor parts!(or poor fitting)and no its not my driving! i know one or two of you guys think Britpart are no good but i am now getting rather hacked off by having to go back to garage with failed parts and yes its Britpart thats causing the most problems! its not the first time their parts have failed! so from now on i tell them NOT to fit Britpart just in case!

So in answer to your question the answer is poor workmanship from your garage. It appears they did not bed in the pads which is normally the cause of brake judder after replacement. You paid them to replace the brakes which includes the bedding process.

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So in answer to your question the answer is poor workmanship from your garage. It appears they did not bed in the pads which is normally the cause of brake judder after replacement. You paid them to replace the brakes which includes the bedding process.

.....thanks landymannnnnnnn! me sure its just down to pooooor parts! should have spent more and got LD parts! <_<

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Interested by the bedding in argument - drive steady after replacing mine then I tend to thrash it and never have snags - but always take my foot of when stationary if hot and use hand brake. I also use Delphi / Lockheed discs and pads - At a push I'd use Allmakes (who I find are generaly the best pattern part lot and ok in everything I have seen)

I WILL ONLY USE S***PART FOR THINGS I CAN'T GET ANY OTHER WAY and only then in areas where I think that they can't cock it up and it wouldn't be terminal if they did. I've seen their swivel pins half forced into railko bushes ( WAY out of tolerance on the pin diameter) and door hinges that had far more play than the most knackered of old hinges has; Brand new calliper pistons with many obvious and deep pinholes in the chrome working surfaces (which a certain supplier of B***part stated was fine!) thats just three examples, I have seen many more. The general finish on their components has always had me suspicious as an engineer and that's the thing we can all easily assess - if that's clearly poor then how about the material quality and any heat treatment if applied? You get what you pay for.

Genuine LR will bankrupt all but the rich - get online and go to LRseries or similar and get a set of OEM (ie Lockheed) discs... and personaly I'd bin the Brit part pads and put in OEM replacements... and give to garage to fit if it comes to it.

Jim

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