muddyplugger Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 OK, I have worse case senario here. The TD5 Disco has been filled from near empty with aprox 20 litres of premium unleaded. It has also been driven for aprox 15 miles (how come it managed that far is anyones guess). It was only this morning when it wouldnt start and chucked out black smoke that I asked the qusetion to the (now late) Mrs Muddyplugger, "you didnt put petrol in this did you?" OOOPS! So, damage is done, I am off to drain the tank and get a new filter, but what sort of salvage can be done? and how to I now get the petrol out of the lines and prevent further (!) damage? I have to try and make the best here so what needs to be done???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 OK, I have worse case senario here.The TD5 Disco has been filled from near empty with aprox 20 litres of premium unleaded. It has also been driven for aprox 15 miles (how come it managed that far is anyones guess). It was only this morning when it wouldnt start and chucked out black smoke that I asked the qusetion to the (now late) Mrs Muddyplugger, "you didnt put petrol in this did you?" OOOPS! So, damage is done, I am off to drain the tank and get a new filter, but what sort of salvage can be done? and how to I now get the petrol out of the lines and prevent further (!) damage? I have to try and make the best here so what needs to be done???? Crack off the injectors and bleed it through till the smell of petrol has gone and new fuel filter drain the tank. best you can do really fill to the brim with correct fuel and make the wife feel very very guilty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted June 5, 2006 Author Share Posted June 5, 2006 She does feel guilty! and no wonder. I have had a look in the workshop manual, and it recons to remove the viscous fan toget the rocker cover off! Is that right? I know these manuals, they love being overcautious, and then the manual recommends using special LR tool LR-12-154/1 to take out the injectors. Can I take off the fuel hose as close to the injectors as I can (wherever that may be) so to clean it all out? Or am I best dismanting the lot? Yours dauntingly, Anth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Yep, bleed the whole system, drain the tank, replace the filter and cross your fingers. Hopefully it'll be OK although a guy I know did something simerlar recently and the engine ran resulting in its untimely demise. Not pretty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 just fill it with diesel and drive it petrol is added to diesel to stop waxing in winter. the large tank you have will soon mix the small amount of petrol in relation to the amount of diesel you can add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 just fill it with diesel and drive itpetrol is added to diesel to stop waxing in winter. the large tank you have will soon mix the small amount of petrol in relation to the amount of diesel you can add. I would think if you drain the tank of petrol them refill but the filter I would say is a must Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted June 5, 2006 Author Share Posted June 5, 2006 Thanks chaps, I am off to syphon out the petrol, I will attempt to purge the system by removing a fuel hose from the engine, I have a new filter, I bought some diesel injector cleaner/treatment, then as you say brim it with diesel and cross my fingers! Keep the suggestions coming and I will keep you all posted. It may take me till tomorrow as I can't straighten my arm due to trappped nerve in neck this morning! Oh joy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 good luck all will be fine. petrol diesel aren't worlds apart and I'm posititve all will be well once fresh diesel is added Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imspanners Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Drain it all from the tank. Put in around a gallon of diesel. Bleed the system to purge as much petrol from the fuel lines as possible. (ignition on pump the throttle 5 times??) . Do this several times. Drain the remaining petrol diesel mix. Fill to the brim with fresh diesel (or at least 20 litres). Bleed fuel system again and start vehicle. Run engine for 10-15minutes to get warm. Replace fuel filter (petrol rots the element). Job done.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocKeR Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I did this on my TD5 Disco a few months back, but luckily the ever alert SWMBO spotted what I was doing so I never turned the ignition on. Luckily we we're filling up at a small garage with a very nice service manager who syphoned the tank. Apparently it can't be syphoned through the fuel filler, because of whatever anti-theft measures that LR have put in place, though I haven't actually tried it. We syphoned it through the top of the tank. Don't forget, as imspanners implied, there's some magic trickery required to prime the fuel pump once you've emptied the tank on a TD5. Something like pumping the trottle 10 times with the ignition on whilst standing on you head and sacrificing a goat on the bonnet.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Expect the fuel pump to expire some time in the not too distant future but you might be ok apart from that which is a strong possibility. The injectors probably won't have gone too much on the experience but they may be ok. With the price of a new set I wouldn't replace them as a precaution!! I would get as much as you can out of the tank before brimming with diesel, rather than just leaving it in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onions Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I've just spent 3 hours round at muddyplugger's house. My hands smell like diesel/unleaded mix. Anyhow, it's running again, but I'll leave it to MP to update you on the full procedure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diesel_jim Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 According to LRO you'll need a new engine, possibly gearbox, definately axles and PAS box, and maybe a respray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I was in Taunton L/R(also a Jaguar dealer) they had a Stype Diesel in that had been filled with petrol they were invoicing the owner via his insurance for in excess of 7k new fuel tank/injectors/fuel pipes/pumps you name it they ripped him off for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I was in Taunton L/R(also a Jaguar dealer)they had a Stype Diesel in that had been filled with petrol they were invoicing the owner via his insurance for in excess of 7k new fuel tank/injectors/fuel pipes/pumps you name it they ripped him off for it. Yeah that is the "Land Rover say you must do this and replace everything to maintain your warranty" version though, how they figure that tank and pipes will be beyond re-use is beyond me!!! Nobody in their right mind would take a blind bit of notice unless an insurance company was paying! You'd think in this day and age somebody would have invented round and square pump nozzles and matching filler necks or something truly idiot proof to stop this happening wouldn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted June 5, 2006 Author Share Posted June 5, 2006 Thanks to all for the above! Really really! It all works now (except what knackers in the next ?00miles) - which I hope isn't the fuel pump as its brand new and only done 500 miles! Heres how I/we (Mr Onions helped) did it. 1. Drained the tank through the filler with a jiggle drainer (no anti-syphon system unless I punched through it). 2. Removed the 'quick release' fuel line from what I believe to be the fuel pressure regulator on the block (pictured below) 3. I then turned on the ignition to allow the fuel pump to spew out the remaining petrol until it was empty. (only did this for 20 second bursts as I wasn't sure if I was going to break something else.) 4. Filled it with 20 litres of diesel and then ran it though as above until pure diesel arrived. 5. Replaced the fuel filter. 6. Primed the fuel system in a hotchpotch way - 3 x 20 second bursts on the ignition and listened for the air escaping (or thats what it sounded like). 7. Crossed my fingers and started her up with a few pumps of the throttle. It started second or third time, few puffs of black smoke and then clean. I then bunged in 1/2 bottle of the redex diesel treatment stuff in, and filled it up with £70 of the correct fuel type! So far so good! I have done it the best way I could, and I'm sure if given to Land Rover then, as was pointed out it would have new fuel lines and a respray by now!! Please be warned - Apparently it was my fault for going off roading yesterday and leaving the (now forgiven) Mrs Muddyplugger with the kids as they distracted her when she filled it up!! At least now I have 2 years worth of premium unleaded for the lawnmower!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 IIRC the real problem is the injector pump ………. the pump uses diesel as a lubricant and the tolerances are very fine. Petrol is not a good lubricator so the depending on the cleanliness of the pump scoring can be a problem. Also petrol destroys the internal pump seals. Most time you get away with this as it is a petrol / diesel mix ……… and its not in there long enough to cause harm With regard to the winter anti waxing ……… I thought that kerosene was added to derv, not petrol ……. Anyways…….. them’s is stinkin’ diesels ………. Petrol is for the more refined driver Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 after the briefest of Google searches "In the winter we allways used to put petrol in the diesel tank of the truck to stop the fuel waxing up in extreme tempratures such as the French Alps. Ideally paraffin should have been used but petrol works just as well." a tad of petrol in my diesel engine hasn't seen any issues 20k miles down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 IIRC the real problem is the injector pump Good job a Td5 doesn't have one then Though you have 5 instead, 1 in each injector, which may not be a better thing in these circumstances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 oh right, thought it was a common rail engine? with solenoid valve-work in each injector? jus' wonderin' Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Well, I'm glad it all turned out fine. I’m pretty sure your wife won't make the same mistake again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddyplugger Posted June 6, 2006 Author Share Posted June 6, 2006 Well, I'm glad it all turned out fine. I’m pretty sure your wife won't make the same mistake again She wont!!! Infact I think it would be cheaper if I fill it up from now on! Maybe that was the idea??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsr341 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 did any one see 5th gear last night ? they did this on purpose , petrol in a diesel and diesel in a petrol they where older cars that the TD5 (astra and escort) but although they did have a few probs (bad running) they survived with out any majour problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 That was a pretty good item, common rail diesels wouldn't have liked it much, but older ones would survive with some tlc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 oh right, thought it was a common rail engine? with solenoid valve-work in each injector? jus' wonderin'Luke No it is a EUI (pronounced "yeeeeeuckspitspew") engine, not common rail in the usual sense though the number of times I have seen it described as such I have lost count of.... though it is "sort of common rail but not really"! In a "proper" common rail engine (Td4 for example) a low pressure pump feeds a single high pressure pump which pressurises the rail to about 100 million bar and then the injectors feed off that, just being electrically actuated to squirt it in. In the EUI system there is a low pressure fuel rail (in a Td5 fed by the in tank pump at about 58psi) which just feeds fuel through drillings in the head to the injectors at the supply pressure, each injector has a high pressure pump built in to it which generates the high injection pressure internally and the injection is electrically actuated by a solenoid. So it has a fuel rail of sorts but it is not really the same thing. And (hard hat on, coat on, door open) given that the Td5 is a bag of spanners to drive and the common rail diesels I have driven (Td4, TDV6...) are really nice, I can't see the advantage of EUI personally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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