Trailer weights

[zardos]

I've never understood that 85% guideline - how would that work with Artics?

G.

The 85% guideline is for vehicles where the tow attachment point is not between the axles of the tow vehicle (because the trailer acts as a lever around fulcrum of the rear axle both horizontally and vertically and can affect the direction of travel a lot easier).

For Artics the attachment point is in between or over the rear axle so the weigh has a different affect, plus also they have an active braking system, not just overrun brakes (I seem to remember even with a behind the rear axle towing point, an active breaking system increases the guideline max % weight)

So basically the Physics is different for Artics.

I believe that swan or goose neck trailers used so much in the USA also have a higher guideline weight.

[zardos]

Also note that even though a 90 can tow 3500Kg, you can still be charged under generic dangerous driving law (a very grey area)

Interesting read
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_prosecuting_cases_of_bad_driving/#a29
and
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_prosecuting_cases_of_bad_driving/#b2
With a quote "driving a vehicle knowing it has a dangerous defect or is poorly maintained or is dangerously loaded;"

It is possible to argue that above the 85% guideline is dangerously loaded.

But then again you can be charged for "driving through a puddle causing pedestrians to be splashed;"

[Retroanaconda]

If the vehicle is rated to tow 3,500kg and the trailer is properly and safely loaded then I don't see how you could be prosecuted under any dangerous driving law.

On the other hand if someone is driving a dangerously loaded vehicle or trailer then they deserve to be prosecuted regardless of the legality of the weight combinations.

I thought the 85% was a generic recommendation from folks such as the caravan club. I don't know if it has any basis in law or legislation? Who has decided that 85% is the threshold for being dangerous?

[western]

I think the 85% is so the tow vehicle remains incharge of the trailer [nominally a caravan] as that's where it come from, it is NOT UK law.

from their leaflet http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/12427056/you___your_caravan.pdf

The

caravan’s weight, loaded up with everything

you’re going to take on holiday, shouldn’t

be more than 85% of the car’s weight with

nothing loaded in the car, other than driver

AFAIK it does not apply to other trailer types, always load safely & securely,

[Tanuki]

I've always considered the supposed "85%" thing to generically apply to ordinarily-powered-and-equipped passenger-cars, not purpose-designed commercial vehicles like Land-Rovers: if the manufacturers class a vehicle as assessed capable of towing 3500Kg and this is accepted by the various EU type-approval bodies then I would consider this an absolute defence against any attempted prosecution for 'overloaded towing'.

See: http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/preparing/preparing.aspx

Indeed, there are various public photos of Police 110-inch Land-Rovers recovering seriously-heavy and rather-more-than-LR-ever-rated-was-acceptable loads from the likes of the Blackwall- and Greenwich-Tunnels.

I'd happily offer these in evidence if the Polizei ever tried to prosecute me for towing 3500Kg with my Defender.

[C18RCH]

Just to confuse things even further, if your train weight exceeds 3500kgs and it is for business purposes then you are supposed to have a tacho fitted. There are some loopholes but these are grey areas too.

Also, the post 97 licenses work on the capability of your rig and to what you are actually towing. If you tow a trailer which weighs 1000kgs but which is capable of holding another 2500kgs, even though it is empty you are still breaking the law because you are capable of exceeding 3500kgs MAM and it is viewed in the law that your intention is to do so.

[Bowie69]

Not quite true.

[C18RCH]

which bit?

[Gazzar]

Gods, what a mess!

Load it well, strap it down, keep the speed sensible, use your mirrors and look inconspicuous.

[LiamC]

With regards to snaking, I'm sure I read somewhere that the new discovery is clever enough to detect a snake and apply braking to one individual wheel at a time to counter the snake, pretty clever I thought.

[Puffernutter]

I'd not seen/heard that. I know that some new caravans have an Al-Ko widget that recognises a snake and brakes the caravan.

Cheers

Peter

[C18RCH]

Not quite true.

MAM is Maximum Authorised Mass. Ie the Mass the rig is capable of towing:

https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/driving-licence-rules-and-what-you-can-tow

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:

· drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM

so if you tow a trailer with a MAM of 3500kgs behind a defender you are exceeding the 3500kg MAM by the weight of the defender and anything in it, and therefore breaking the law whether the rig actually exceeds 3500kgs or not. I know because I found out the hard way.

EU Tacho requirements:

I’ve highlighted the important bits including the grey areas which are relevant to most with regard to the exemptions. If you are heavier or capable of being heavier that 3500kgs you need a tacho unless one of the exemptions apply.

https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/goods-vehicles

Goods vehicles

The rules that apply to goods vehicles depend on the weight of your vehicle, the country you’re driving in and what you’re using the vehicle for.

EU rules

EU rules apply if:

· the maximum permissible weight of your vehicle/vehicle combination is more than 3.5 tonnes

Exemptions from EU law

Some types of vehicle are exempt from EU rules. This means that they come under GB Domestic rules in the UK.

The main types of vehicle that are exempt include:

· vehicles that can’t go faster than 40 kilometres per hour, including vehicles that are restricted by a set speed limiter

· emergency aid vehicles - vehicles used in the non-commercial transport of humanitarian aid for use in emergencies or rescue operations

· breakdown vehicles - specialised breakdown vehicles working within a 100km of their base

· vehicles undergoing road tests for technical development, repair or maintenance purposes, and new or rebuilt vehicles which have not yet been put into service

· non-commercial vehicles under 7.5 tonnes - for example a person moving house or goods carried by a non-profit making group or registered charity

· vehicles manufactured more than 25 years ago

· vehicles with between 10 to 17 seats used exclusively for non-commercial passengers, eg minibuses used by voluntary and community groups

· vehicles used by agricultural, horticultural, forestry, farming or fishery businesses for carrying goods within 100km of where the business is based

· vehicles that are used to carry live animals between a farm and a market, or from a market to a slaughterhouse where the distance is less than 50km

· vehicles that are used to carry animal waste or carcasses that are not intended for human consumption

· educational vehicles, eg play buses and mobile libraries

· vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible weight of 7.5 tonnes or less that are used for carrying work equipment for the driver

· vehicles driven only on islands whose area does not exceed 2,300km2

· vehicles with a maximum weight of 7.5 tonnes which use natural or liquefied gas or electricity as fuel and carry goods within 50km from their base

· driving instruction or exams - vehicles used for driving instruction and examination. Includes instruction for renewal of Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC)

· circus vehicles - specialised vehicles transporting circus and funfair equipment

· milk collection - vehicles used for collecting milk from farms or returning milk containers or milk products for animal feed to farms

· any vehicle that was manufactured more than 25 years from the occasion on which it is being driven

· any vehicle that is propelled by steam

[Puffernutter]

You missed a bit!

• tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

​Cheers

Peter

[Bowie69]

Thank you Puffernutter, that was what I was referring to, there are two ways to assess a train, actual weight, or MAM.

[C18RCH]

And this is where the grey starts. Cue contradictory gov advice sheet:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_067672.pdf

Except for category B1, all weights quoted for the

relevant vehicles relate to the ‘Maximum Authorised

Mass’ (MAM). This is the total weight of the vehicle

when ‘laden’ (loaded). Where we refer to an

‘unladen weight’, this means the weight when not

carrying a load.

Motor vehicle with a MAM of

up to 3,500kg, no more than

eight passenger seats with or

without a trailer – weighing no

more than 750kg.

As category B but with a

trailer weighing more than

750kg. The total weight of

the vehicle and trailer together

can’t weigh more than 3500kg.

The weight of the trailer, when

fully loaded, can’t weigh more

than the unladen weight of the

vehicle.

If all weights quoted for the relevant vehicles relate to MAM then The total weight of the vehicle and trailer together can’t weigh more than 3500kg MAM. This one also adds the weight of the trailer, when fully loaded, can’t weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle. Or put differently the MAM of the trailer can’t weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle. So for your average 90 if the MAM of the trailer is more than 1700kgs (ish) it’s not allowed.

The problem is wherever you look the advice is conflicting and you only need the officer on the day to interpret it differently and it causes all sorts of problems.

[LiamC]

Yes but that only applies to cat B license holders. If you have B+E on you license it is fine to have a trailer with MAM exceeding the unladen weight of your 90. If you have B+E, your trailer can be up to 3500kg MAM as this is the maximum specified by Land Rover on the vin plate.

[zardos]

I've always considered the supposed "85%" thing to generically apply to ordinarily-powered-and-equipped passenger-cars, not purpose-designed commercial vehicles like Land-Rovers: if the manufacturers class a vehicle as assessed capable of towing 3500Kg and this is accepted by the various EU type-approval bodies then I would consider this an absolute defence against any attempted prosecution for 'overloaded towing'.

See: http://www.ntta.co.uk/law/preparing/preparing.aspx

Indeed, there are various public photos of Police 110-inch Land-Rovers recovering seriously-heavy and rather-more-than-LR-ever-rated-was-acceptable loads from the likes of the Blackwall- and Greenwich-Tunnels.

I'd happily offer these in evidence if the Polizei ever tried to prosecute me for towing 3500Kg with my Defender.

I think your defence falls under one of exceptions defined in various laws when you mentioned "recovery", and therefore is not valid unless you are also doing "recovery"

And the using the 85% guideline is probably never the prime reason for a run in with the law, just extra nails in the coffin because it is a "guideline"