"supercharging" your heater

[sandu_222]

On 10/23/2016 at 9:33 PM, western said:

4inch or 101mm diameter is the one Ruuman used, it does state that in his original post 

 

 

then it is NOT  Attwood 3000 , but is  Attwood 4000.

Ruuman, please advise on this point.

[pete3000]

15 minutes ago, sandu_222 said:

then it is NOT  Attwood 3000 , but is  Attwood 4000.

Ruuman, please advise on this point.

See page 5 halfway down...... already queried. 3000 is 3" (75mm)(too small),  4000 is 4" (100mm)

[sandu_222]

12 minutes ago, pete3000 said:

See page 5 halfway down...... already queried. 3000 is 3" (75mm)(too small),  4000 is 4" (100mm)

yeap, read it already after posting.

now I would ask, if I will connect the blidge blower with a separate switch, do I need a resistor? As I understand the resistor offers the possibility to have more than a single speed. Am I correct?

So assuming I do not require more speeds, I can only connect the blower through a fuse to a ON/OFF switch?

[bodumatau]

as an idea, if you were to install a ball valve on one side of the heater pipes? that would render the heater matrix "cold" as it no longer has any flow through it, 

this might be an idea for summer so that we can also use our supercharged blowers then to get cool air into the cab, mine never really blows cool even on the cold setting.

[Bowie69]

Ford KAs have an electric heater valve (many other cars as well by now, I would assume), which could be switched via a switch attached to the heat slider inside the dash pretty easily.... Food for thought...?

[reb78]

4 hours ago, bodumatau said:

as an idea, if you were to install a ball valve on one side of the heater pipes? that would render the heater matrix "cold" as it no longer has any flow through it, 

this might be an idea for summer so that we can also use our supercharged blowers then to get cool air into the cab, mine never really blows cool even on the cold setting.

Does the coolant need to flow through the matrix to maintain flow through the head, or will it circulate properly even if the matrix is blocked off?

[Fatboy]

I thought I'd give this a crack and bought the Atwood 4000 form the chap in the IoM (Got the 4000 in the box, not the 3000 - happy days).

I wired mine separate to the heater, through a 10A fuse with a toggle switch beside the ignition key. It works a treat! 

On its own, I think the Atwood is stronger than setting 2 of the standard heater and have been using it on its own, but with the heater toggle down to just above the 2nd point to make sure the flap is open.

I'm actually wondering about blocking the radiator to try and get more heat from the matrix. Unfortunately I've got a full width intercooler in front of the radiator but I can slot sheets of material between them to reduce the airflow to the radiator. (Currently using a couple of old number plates).

Well done to everyone who contributed to this thread!

[Ex Member]

33 minutes ago, reb78 said:

Does the coolant need to flow through the matrix to maintain flow through the head, or will it circulate properly even if the matrix is blocked off?

No, it is fine.  I've been running years with a heater valve.

You can get a valve and connect it to the stock cable.  It needs to be "push to open" in order for the hot/cold to be in the right direction.  Push to open is less common than push to close, but they are around.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Red90

[bodumatau]

42 minutes ago, reb78 said:

Does the coolant need to flow through the matrix to maintain flow through the head, or will it circulate properly even if the matrix is blocked off?

I don't think it does (concur with Red90) but..... i have on occasion used the heater matrix for extra cooling in the peak of summer when my radiator is full of Kalahari grass seeds and the temp gauge starts creeping, haha, but those we also other times, an old V8 in an old 101 full of happy tourists pulling a beeg trailer..... passengers weren't too happy about me putting on the heater though with 40 plus degrees outside , luckily it was a soft top 101.

[Snagger]

There is no need for coolant to flow through the heater matrix to protect the engine.  SIIIs had exactly the configuration you're talking about, with the temperature control lever and its Bowden cable operating a water valve on the head next to the thermostat to control coolant flow through the heater matrix.  The 90/110 uses the same cable to operate an air diverter flap inside the matrix housing as this allows maximum coolant flow through the matrix for cold weather (the valve was a little restrictive even when fully open) and to allow fan air to bypass the matrix completely when cold is selected to remove the airflow restriction of the matrix and vastly increase cab ventilation.  The diverter flap is also more reliable than the coolant control valve as it is less prone to seizure from corrosion and scale deposits, and it is a significant reduction in the chance of coolant leaks.

Unless you are removing the flap to fit a full width matrix for increased heating performance (which would allow greater airflow with hot selected and would also increase heat transfer), then stick with the flap and don't fit the valve.  If you're in a location that gets extremely cold but never gets hot enough in summer to need cold ventilation from the blower (bulkhead vents, windows and sunroof being sufficient), then fitting the big matrix and having no flap or valve for temperature control would be fine - you'd have the most powerful heating capacity for winter and no need for the system in mild conditions.  I ran my SIII like that for a decade in the UK with no inconvenience.  It'd be no good in locations that get very hot in summer, especially where you have aircon fitted.

[bodumatau]

Problem is not only running the blower in Summer but rather the fact that because of a lower pressure inside the cab and the poor design of the heating box there is ALWAYS airflow into the cab, even if it is off, and it is ALWAYS significantly warmer than the outside air temperate because it is maybe not flowing through the matrix but around it and still being heated up. the only way to solve this in really hot countries is to either positive pressure your cab with the bulkhead vents, but at low speeds and hot days also this air is heated over the bonnet, or close all the windows and rely on the air con, which is also feeble in most Defenders.

this is why my thinking of making the matrix completely cold came about, this way even the "bleed" flow that comes through by default is not heated.

 

 

[Jocklandjohn]

I'm contemplating getting one of the Attwood 3000 3inch bilge blowers and (somehow) fitting it inside the cab roof with flaps and blowing at my face - that'll cool me down in the height of summer!

[pete3000]

6 minutes ago, Jocklandjohn said:

I'm contemplating getting one of the Attwood 3000 3inch bilge blowers and (somehow) fitting it inside the cab roof with flaps and blowing at my face - that'll cool me down in the height of summer!

inbuilt midge screen? Hang on a minute height of summer? you mean those 2 days you get where it goes above 8 deg c. lol. :-)

[bodumatau]

52 minutes ago, Jocklandjohn said:

I'm contemplating getting one of the Attwood 3000 3inch bilge blowers and (somehow) fitting it inside the cab roof with flaps and blowing at my face - that'll cool me down in the height of summer!

then you might need one of these: 

those blowers a quite spritely

[Jocklandjohn]

1 hour ago, pete3000 said:

inbuilt midge screen? Hang on a minute height of summer? you mean those 2 days you get where it goes above 8 deg c. lol. :-)

It was so warm in my van one year the glue holding the roof lining up melted and it all flopped on top of me!  Midges? There will be a 'protein extractor' function to ensure its all recycled!

 I was working on the Isle of Rum a year or two back and this was the midge count after ONE NIGHT on the window sill of one of the resident's houses! They were filling a giant bottle and marking the date and thickness of midge layer - which corresponded beautifully with the wind speed for that night, more wind/less midges and less wind/more midges. 

[Jocklandjohn]

1 hour ago, bodumatau said:

then you might need one of these: 

those blowers a quite spritely

 I'll use a resistor to keep out under control!  And see if I can fab up some ducts to be able to direct the flow. Since I built my lifting roof I actually have a void above the cab roof, created between the base of the sleeping platform and the upper surface of the original roof which I can easily fit some ducts in, with some form of swivel coming down into the cab. I reckon it might work reasonably well.

[GW8IZR]

So I fitted the bilge blower today, access was a bit more complex as there are a few bits in the way on mine but straightforward job.

Its worth making sure you trim the bilge blower outlet so there is only a 6.35mm or (1/4' in real money) protrusion or it fouls the existing fan impeller - I had to take mine out and trim it first time round. It was interesting to note that on full bore the silly after market scoop / duct thing is now being sucked onto the inlet and was noticeably restricting the air flow. Stupid idea, it was on the wing when I got it but a standard grill is to be fitted when I next order some bits.

Wired across the existing motor so the speed control works as expected I don't think we need worry about the additional current.

Both motors on slow is 1.75A and both motors on fast 6.2A so well within the capabilities of the switches and wires.

I did put an in line waterproof fuse for the new blower so I can turn it off if needed.

Makes a bit more noise on full speed but insignificant in the 90.

Is it worth it? well,  I reckon my original motor is in good order and the heater was always ok anyway but a bit more demist is helpful.

Here both blowers individually generate about the same amount of air, they both draw the same current so efficiency seems about the same as well. There is a noticeable increase in demist when both are running and tonight I was using 'slow' most of the time whereas before I would have been on 'fast' so it meets my requirement of enabling a bit more demist when needed.

 

 

 

[western]

Quote

Its worth making sure you trim the bilge blower outlet so there is only a 6.35mm or (1/4' in real money) protrusion or it fouls the existing fan impeller -

I haven't trimmed mine down, it doesn't seem to be interfering with the original fan, might just pull it out for a look/trim though if the weather at weekend is decent.

[GW8IZR]

I suppose it depends how far its stuck out Ralph, I pushed mine up to the first flange and stuck an M4 nut and bolt through the top to secure it. Hot glue then round the flange to 'stick' it in place. That left maybe 3/4 inch sticking out at the bottom. That definitely stopped the original fan rotating. I just marked it round with a pen and trimmed it off.

Anyway if yours isn't touching I'd prob leave it alone :-) I would on mine as the water bottle, aux fuse box, headlamp relay box, relay panel for the cooling fan, brackets for the air box and HF antenna base all have to come off before I can get to the duct!

[GW8IZR]

3 hours ago, Jocklandjohn said:

 

 I was working on the Isle of Rum a year or two back and this was the midge count after ONE NIGHT on the window sill of one of the resident's houses!

I once made the mistake of leaving my old collie under the fly screen of my tent ( he liked fox poo ) I could hear him start to cry about an hour in to the night and when I investigated we both had to swim in the loch to get rid of the worst and spent the next few hours cleaning him up and treating the bites. Next night smelly or not he was in the tent with me.

[western]

19 hours ago, GW8IZR said:

I suppose it depends how far its stuck out Ralph, I pushed mine up to the first flange and stuck an M4 nut and bolt through the top to secure it. Hot glue then round the flange to 'stick' it in place. That left maybe 3/4 inch sticking out at the bottom. That definitely stopped the original fan rotating. I just marked it round with a pen and trimmed it off.

 

had a look with my inspect probe earlier, the original fan was just touching the new bilge blower outer case, so it's been removed.trimmed back & refitted, now running with no interference issues, so this project on my 110 is now fully complete. 

[Troll Hunter]

Regarding concerns related to circulation through the head if water circulation through the cabin heater is shut off, on my 1991 110 CSW 3.5V8, middle east spec - lower CR - the design included a vacuum operated water shut-off valve to the heater.  This ensured no leakage through the heater core when the A/C was in use, and the A/C was pretty good.

Mike

 

 

[Jon.w]

Sorry to bring up an old topic, but I did this today and it works great!!

I used the Attwood Turbo 4000 along with a 12V motor speed controller, total cost £30.94. 

Using the speed controller means the speed is totally variable with the turn of a knob, I have installed this as a replacement for the existing fan as it had seized up. I would recommend this over replacing the fan as it is cheaper and more effective. 

[Ex Member]

And you are happy?

The specs are not very encouraging.  I can't imagine and axial blower producing much pressure.

http://www.attwoodmarine.com/userfiles/store/product/files/1238/1731.pdf

 

[Mo Murphy]

My bilge blower provides some useful extra puff in addition to the heater fan but it's still nothing like the power of a normal car heater blower.

Mo