Tom1809 Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 hi all. this 90 i brought has turned out to be pretty much a lemon, being a private sell i have very little to go back on so would like your opinions. firstly clutch went last night, all of a sudden started slipping then about 2 minutes later lost all drive completely, i brought a new clutch yesterday ready to fit but wondering if it could be much worse? in low range it will creep along very slowly but put foot on the break will run happily in gear. today i decided to strip down to get to the gear box i found parts of the floor had been plated, but instead of welding the plate its been stuck down with body filler and then painted over. again same i found with the doors, and the rear door i have had to take the wheel off as it looks like the frame in the middle of the door is non existence once the cheque plate was removed. is it worth sourcing some new doors or repairing these ones to the best i can, it seems the door skins are in OK condition the bottoms just bubbling. also is it worth getting somebody to weld up a few holes from previous accessories in panels or to just going to be easier to replace those too? could someone also tell me the name of the colour of the 90 on e bay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-90-defender-off-road-300tdi-/320624703427?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4aa6b8b7c3 regards tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 if it's the original factory paint/reg year letter then it'll probably be CCL Venetian Red 81-87 LRC.440 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Replacing doors is expensive, good ones (if you can even find them) go for money in the region of £150 - £250 per door. Much better to repair what you have. Or just leave them, if they open and close and lock then most people just live with the corrosion until it gets to a critical point (ie. door falls off or won't open/close/lock etc.). I've seen Defenders a few years old with rust in the bottom frames of the doors...it's just a horrifically bad design combined with cheap and shoddy construction. Your clutch issue may be the hydraulics rather than the friction or pressure plate, they are a lot easier to fix in terms of workload. Might be worth checking for catastrophic leaks etc. first. Also possible is the clutch release arm punching through, the pedal usually goes to the floor in this instance. That does require separation of engine/box though unfortunately. If your rust is in the floor plate then that can be easily replaced. If it's in the footwell (part of the bulkhead panel between people and engine) then it can also be replaced, just not quite as easily. If you have a mate with a welder then get him round and get him plating. Be wary of just how much rust it is possible to find though... All your issues are fixable, but this is sort of what older Land Rovers are about. You have to either A. have enough money to be able to take it into a garage every month to have bits done or B. be willing to spend weekends and evenings getting dirty fixing the thing! Luckily they are simple to work on so B. is possible, unlike a lot of other vehicles. In answer to your question, I think it is worth it yes. I fall into the B. category above and while there are times when the cars are the bane of my existance (usually when I'm lying under the thing trying to align stubborn object 1 with inaccessible object 2), overall I enjoy working on them and I'm sure I've learned more in my years of ownership (through this form and my own fiddling) than I would have sitting in a garage waiting room. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 If it makes you feel any better you're not the only one that's ever bought a lemon... Don't despaire too much, but unfortunatly like reto says its part of ownership of an older Landy. This forum was the best thing I joined when I bought my Landy it would not be running today without the knowledge and encouragment I found here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longlandy Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Post some picks of the damage for us to see whats whats,it might just seem worse than what it actually is. Most landrovers have bad doors hidden under trim,filler etc, dont worry its part of the fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 thanks guys, its just my car was wrote of a couple of weeks ago and I have just spent every last penny I had on this thing and when I viewed and test drove it everything seemed perfect, just 2 weeks later its now starting to cost me serious money that I don't have and its my daily drive which causes me problems. im more than happy enough to give anything ago as I like to think im mechanically minded and I can not afford the fees garage charge and as im 19 I don't want to keep running to my parents to borrow money to get it fixed, i am just a little bit nervous of doing things, bikes i can rebuild and strip easily just never really done much work on cars except replace on shock or uj. ii think ill have to get myself a welder and practice and give it a go and see if i can do a good job on the floor as its in the foot well/bulkhead bit. ill take the door cards of and see how bad it really is and then make a choice. there is no signs of hydraulic leaks from the clutch slave cylinder or anything, and the peddle does not drop down, bite point high up so i think its go to be friction plates. once again thanks for the help tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 I will post some picks when I get it in the light or in a place with enough light to clearly see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill in Nova Scotia Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Is it even possible to get a lemon in an old Defender/Series? I've always thought that you just got one for a good or bad price. After that it was just like others have said here; it depends on how dirty and/or poor you want to be having fun with these things. My son paid close to $11K CDN for his '95 ex-BATUS 110 and frankly, I think he got a much better deal than the last Range Rover I bought despite the Defender needing a fair amount of work and not nearly being as "comfy". With the Defender everything comes off and can be replaced even though it might come at a cost, but no electronics, plenty of room to work and the ability, if you have access to the right skills, to fabricate things if need be. We are having a great time doing a frame-up restoration on this 110 and I figure when we are done we might put in another $2500 in bits and whole winter in time and effort, but when its done it is going to be a pretty slick rig. And I'll probably be royally ticked when he then takes it out and starts banging around in the bush. Cheers, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 if i say i paid 3150gbp for a 1992 200tdi with 195k on the clock with full history is that good or bad? pretty much standard except for a pair of tree sliders, and horribly alloys n shara's plenty of dents. the unfortunate thing is for myself i literaly have myself to work on it and a open drive way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 thing is for myself i literaly have myself to work on it and a open drive way pretty much what most of us 90/110 owners have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 It does sound like the clutch friction plates, the easy test would be to remove the slave cylinder first, before stripping everything else, and see if it still slips - if it does it can only be the friction plates, and you can continue stripping it down. Doors are doors. as mentioned, they're commonly rusty, and are generally poor. The typical answer to the back door problem is to fit a swing-away wheel carrier. I think mine actually holds the rear door together.... Changing the clutch isn't a huge job, you can get away with dropping the gearbox on the crossmember and shuffling it back. Do you have access to an engine crane or similar (I used scaffold) and/or a bunch of reasonably clued up mates? I did a clutch change in approx 5 hours when I was 19 or 20, with some overseeing by a more experienced landy mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 if i say i paid 3150gbp for a 1992 200tdi with 195k on the clock with full history is that good or bad? pretty much standard except for a pair of tree sliders, and horribly alloys n shara's plenty of dents. the unfortunate thing is for myself i literaly have myself to work on it and a open drive way I wouldn't really say you paid too much. It may be a bit on the high side due to the mileage, but it's all about condition with Land Rovers, so mileage is really irrelevant. Especially on a 200Tdi as they are known for doing long stints (I have a 90 on 150k and a 110 on 205k...some have much more impressive figures!). If the truck is in good nick structurally and mechanically (ie. chassis/bulkhead and major components like engine/gearboxes ok) then that's a reasonable price based upon what I've seen. A clutch is a wearing component and only lasts so long, so it's most likely just bad timing and bad luck in your case The winter of last year pushed prices up, and this years is set to maintain that rise or push it further if the last week is anything to go by! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy'd Gentry Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Three years ago I put every sparepenny in buying my 110. It was a 2.5 turbo diesel county station wagon. After about a year the engine let go big style, my heart sank. So this was the start of a huge learning curve. My friends helped me do a 200tdi disco conversion. Many hours and cups of coffee and a bag of cash later, it was done, Huzzah! Two weeks after the the transplant completed, the transfer box went kaput! At this point, my friends laughed and opened a book on whether I would (a) pay out huge sums to a garage to swap out the transfer box, (b) scrap the car or © attempt to do the transfer on the side of the road as I am without a drive or garage. Thet were pleasantly suprised when I did the transfer box exchange myself January/February this year. Much sweat blood and tears went into this task, but my 110 is mine! I know it has many failings, but I have put alot of time and effort into this vehicle, and thus it holds a special place. Very few cars have the kind of character of a landy. I know it's agricultural, loud, not as comfortable as a eurobox, but it is a hoot to drive, and has given me enormouse amounts of pleasure working on it. (And yes it is a daily drive along with my BMW) Landy ownership affords more than just getting into the vehicle and driving from A to B, but it is a relationship, we are mearly stewards of said vehicles and spend time and effort in keeping them as we like them. As to how much you paid for yours, if you felt you paid a fair price for the vehicle, then fine. It doesn't matter which vehicle you buy, as cars by their very nature have faults which may not be apparent at time of sale. The main thing is to enjoy your landy for better or for worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 "Landy ownership affords more than just getting into the vehicle and driving from A to B, but it is a relationship, we are mearly stewards of said vehicles and spend time and effort in keeping them as we like them." That's it. Nut shell. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 They're all lemons to some degree if we were sane we'd all be driving toyotas Landies go wrong, but they are also far cheaper & easier to fix when they do. I bought a shed of a 109 when I was young, spent far too much on it on more than one occasion... and I've still got it, it just looks a bit different now Everyone's served their time under a tarp on a driveway, welding up rusty junk, etc., you'll learn a lot with this vehicle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbs Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Tom, Welcome to a community that is ever helpful!-you'll always find people who have worked with/on and enjoyed Land Rovers in all sort of places on the planet-the forum here will give you the confidence to be able to try new things with the advice of either the outstandingly friendly people here that have a wealth of experience and a tech archive that is second to none, If you have a question please look in the tech archive before you ask as you will more than likely find the answer in there or ask away in the relevant part of the forum and over time you may find you too have an answer to a question someone else poses, We all help each other out ,yes we can and do take the mick out of each other but only play fully when the need arises. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 hi all, thanks for the replies I think im going to give it a go Thursday and Friday night I already have it down the seat box ready to come out now and drop the front and rear props. but I read last night that it may actually be the master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder and m really confused. cheers tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 but I read last night that it may actually be the master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder and m really confused. So have you done this quick & easy test to prove it? It does sound like the clutch friction plates, the easy test would be to remove the slave cylinder first, before stripping everything else, and see if it still slips - if it does it can only be the friction plates, and you can continue stripping it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 So have you done this quick & easy test to prove it? I don't know how to and im slowly shifting through the search now to find a explanation of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 readjust the clutch master cylinder/pedal pushrod, see my reply in http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=62972 & click the link to see the workshop manual extract attachment about how to carry out the adjustment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted December 7, 2010 Author Share Posted December 7, 2010 oh i found that tonight, i have done that and my pedal sat 140mm from the floor (once i put it back in ) and i did try to readjust it but it does the same, nice gentle revs and pull away fine as soon as you rev it slips and you go no faster, i checked the fluid too and it was not black or grey, however it did look low in my opinion looks low but i dont know how much it is supposed to be filled with. cheers tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Search for the RAVE manuals, they're all available for free download (probably a link round here somewhere) they'll tell you everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 oh i found that tonight, i have done that and my pedal sat 140mm from the floor (once i put it back in ) and i did try to readjust it but it does the same, nice gentle revs and pull away fine as soon as you rev it slips and you go no faster, i checked the fluid too and it was not black or grey, however it did look low in my opinion looks low but i dont know how much it is supposed to be filled with. cheers tom fluid to top of master cylinder forward edge, you can't fill it fully as the cylinder is sat at a angle, so don't wsste time or fluid trying to fill it & mop up any spillage or your paint won't last very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted December 8, 2010 Author Share Posted December 8, 2010 ah that may be one of my problems, there is no leaks on the system at all that i can find, i have traced all the pipes unless its leaking into the bell housing some how but the fluid level s right down almost at the angle of the outlet cheers tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted December 8, 2010 Share Posted December 8, 2010 unless its leaking into the bell housing some how Yes they can do that quite easily if the seals go. but the fluid level s right down almost at the angle of the outlet OK so before dismantling car & spending £100 on a new clutch, check & top up clutch fluid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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