white90 Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Can it be removed insitu without messing up the timing? mine has developed a leak near the rotor head this may be an insitu fix but may need the pump to be removed if it is a bigger problem. anyone taken one off/out and maintained the timing? and how did you go about it please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porny Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Can it be removed insitu without messing up the timing?mine has developed a leak near the rotor head this may be an insitu fix but may need the pump to be removed if it is a bigger problem. anyone taken one off/out and maintained the timing? and how did you go about it please Yep it can be removed without messing with anything else, but you need tool: LRT-12-045 which you use along with the normal injector pump locking pin (or a 10mm drill bit) Basically a circular plate that bolts on the injector pump pulley - then you just remove the pump from the back. Is covered in the workshop manual. The tool is something I keep meaning to buy.... but haven't got round to yet! Can email a copy of the manual if needed. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Yes the pump can be removed without distrubing the timing belt, but only by using these tools LST129 & LRT-12-045, should be in the diesel fuel section of the workshop manual & RAVE, workshop manual, Defender 300Tdi,section 19-fuel system, repair,injection pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 20, 2006 Author Share Posted June 20, 2006 any ideas where I can borrow the special tool LRT-12-045 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Pete/Nick at country rovers or Julain Vardy? you got a copy of the manual? from Rave overhaul pages: FUEL INJECTION PUMP Remove 1. Remove timing belt. 2. Remove fuel pipes from pump and injectors. 3. Ensure that timing pin LRT-12-045 is inserted in injection pump gear hub plate and injection pump hub. 4. Remove 3 bolts securing hub and injection pump gear to injection pump, remove timing pin LRT-12-045 and gear. CAUTION: Do not remove nut securing hub to pump. 5. Remove 3 bolts securing mounting bracket and baffle plate to cylinder block. 6. Remove 2 bolts securing mounting bracket to injection pump, remove bracket. 7. Remove banjo bolt securing fuel spill return pipe to injection pump, discard sealing washers. CAUTION: Plug open connections to prevent ingress of dirt. 8. Remove 3 nuts securing injection pump to timing belt rear cover, remove injection pump. Refit 1. Position injection pump to timing belt rear cover, fit nuts and tighten to 25 Nm. 2. Fit fuel spill return pipe, fit banjo bolt and 2 new sealing washers. 3. Tighten banjo bolt to 25 Nm. 4. Position mounting bracket to injection pump and cylinder block, fit and finger tighten bolts. 5. Tighten mounting bracket bolts to 25 Nm in the following order: Mounting bracket to cylinder block Mounting bracket to injection pump 6. Fit fuel pipes. 7. Position injection pump gear and hub plate to injection pump hub ensuring that cut-out in hub plate is aligned with timing pin hole in pump hub. 8. Fit 3 bolts, position slot in gear mid-way under bolt heads, lightly tighten bolts. NOTE: Do not fit bolts through elongated slots in hub plate. Bolts are fully tightened after timing belt has been adjusted. 9. Insert timing pin LRT-12-045 in hub plate and injection pump hub. 10. Fit and tension timing belt. couldnt work out how to copy the pictures it says LRT-12-045 which looks no different from the normal 9.5mm drill bit! maybe its LST 129 you need to be able to do to do it insitu? just mind that rad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 (edited) LST129/1 = pump timing gear retainer tool & LST129/2 = timing pin for 200Tdi LRT 12-045 = pump timing gear retainer tool & timing pin for 300Tdi I should have properly Edited June 20, 2006 by western Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 what about if when you remove the pin to fit the locking plate and the section behind the gold coloured timing plate turns as it is under tension? WTF do I do now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 cry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 There's no Woodruff key to locate the sprocket on the pump shaft. I would mark the relationship between the two before seperating them. That way you would put them back together the same as they were previously. If for any reason you lost the timing during the repair procedure - you can still tell the position of the sprocket relative to the shaft, as the sprocket has the cut-out for the woodruff key even though one isn't used. There will be a corresponding stain on the shaft indicating where the sprocket was prior to removing it. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 ERM I have removed the pump and now have a pulley that is carrying the timing belt floating around freely in the hole where the injection pump was... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Only way to sort that is to strip the front cover of & reset the pump/belt timing from scratch. with the timing belt retainer tool it has a cut out for the timing pin to be fitted/removed while the pulley stays retained by the bolts in the tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 with the timing belt retainer tool it has a cut out for the timing pin to be fitted/removed while the pulley stays retained by the bolts in the tool. would have been good to have known about that cut out i reckon a bit earlier today! ref our discussion earlier today, these guys were more than helpful with some parts for DSNs FIP - Hickery Valtone 01823 328600, not sure if they are the same one you spoke to earlier. looks like front off (again) when the FIP sorted then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 I know it's a major PITA having to strip it all down, but that's what I would prefer to do in these circumstances. I know that the injector pump being out won't damage the engine, but you don't necessarily know anything is wrong until you put the whole thing back together and turn the key, and then have to strip it all down again - most times further than it was before. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 Any tips for undoiing the crank nut bearing in mind I cannot flick the starter as the FIP is now removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 can u get a rattle gun on it? put vehicle in gear will help too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 If no rattle gun, then remove pushrods and then use the starter as normal. You could also make your own flywheel locking tool Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JST Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 3/4" rattle gun prob, and no i dont have one anymore, Julain prob does though, you can borrow my compressor, they didnt knick that! you prob already have it but if not iask to borrow Julains kti for removing the damper assembly as well. things dont seem to get any better. DSN rovver is fixed, think hes going to update the thread at some point today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Tony, The last one I did was particularly tight and I was also unable to use the starter, I used this method successfully on that occasion and few times before, as it saves taking the Rad/intercooler out. Put it in 5th Hi and get a helper to stand on the brakes. Use a ¾ drive breaker bar and a 6ft length of scaffold tube over the breaker bar. Stand on the front wings and undo nut. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diff Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 If you don't have someone to help, or the clutch slips, you can lock the flywheel by removing the starter and wedging a piece of angle iron or similar against the flywheel ring gear with a bit of wood. Regards, Diff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 If no rattle gun, then remove pushrods and then use the starter as normal. I agree with Les. It is the only way to be sure of avoiding valve/piston damage. If the cam is at the wrong point, any turning of the engine could cause damage - even just taking up the slack between the engine and the brakes. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 Tonk is the winner! dewalt battery impact gun charged battery till full then out it came now just have to wait for the pump to be fixed so I can put it together again. a teaspoon of engine oil was in the bottom of the timing case apparently from the crank seal. what is th eopinion on replacing it whilst I have it all to pieces. and I have the seal here as I had spares from the last timing belt change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 should be able to take off the lower sprocket off the crank so theres room to pop the seal out, i'd change it personally whilst its apart. i'd also fit a new belt to even if its only a couple of months old, but then thats just me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted June 22, 2006 Author Share Posted June 22, 2006 Cheers Mark hadn't considered the belt as it was fitted in Feb but whilst it is in pieces I guess it won't hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonk Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 i always do it just for piece of mind, they never break when its convenient, its always 2 in the morning and miles from home, dont ask how i know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Tonk is the winner!dewalt battery impact gun charged battery till full then out it came now just have to wait for the pump to be fixed so I can put it together again. a teaspoon of engine oil was in the bottom of the timing case apparently from the crank seal. what is th eopinion on replacing it whilst I have it all to pieces. and I have the seal here as I had spares from the last timing belt change Cam & Crank oil seals fit from the block side of the timing case, you'll have to remove the complete case,swap the seals & refit, there's another seal on the inner face of the front cover to keep dust out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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