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How many BOATs are there in the Brecon Beacons NP?


GBMUD
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I know the answer....

Go on, what do you recon?...

You are not going to like it...

Three! :( And one of those is 15m long.

Speaking to a helpful (and sympathetic) chap at the National Park office he also said that almost all other unsurfaced vehicular rights of way in Powys will become Restricted Byways. Powys, for those who do not know, is by far the largest county in Wales covering about 1/4 of the area of Wales. I am glad I did not buy Llanerchindda Farm! :(

Chris

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I know the answer....

Go on, what do you recon?...

You are not going to like it...

Three! :( And one of those is 15m long.

Speaking to a helpful (and sympathetic) chap at the National Park office he also said that almost all other unsurfaced vehicular rights of way in Powys will become Restricted Byways. Powys, for those who do not know, is by far the largest county in Wales covering about 1/4 of the area of Wales. I am glad I did not buy Llanerchindda Farm! :(

Chris

That many!! Hadn't looked at map lately for fear of being depressed. I remember a couple of months back when looking at the maps that it was mostly ucr's and RUPP's and very few BOATS.

Did he say about sarn helen? as that's a RUPP too IIRC and Lane From Hell. Even more of a shame after all of Crag's work on the footbridge if that's lost too.

Something to be said for seeing all of the site od South wales in a weekend. You could never do that on foot!

Steve

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Really?

I don't think so!

Certainly isn't true about Powys CC area.

Don't suppose you got his name, by any chance?

I've just looked at sheet 136 and can see more than 10 Byways, without looking in detail, and that is only a very small part of Powys CC.

Edited by Llanigraham
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Got this back from the CRAG RTL down there.

Powys is one of the most BOAT rich counties in England and Wales. Many other routes are pure UCR and so will be unaffected by NERC. It is unfortunate that within the Brecon Beacon National Park virtually all routes are to become Restricted Byway. However this does not mean that they will 100% lose their vehicular right. Many of the better known routes such as Sarn Helen (North), Talybont and The Gap would almost certainly be worth contesting on the five year main use rule. As we are still waiting for NERC to come into force in Wales, we are still someway from the battle.

Hope this helps

Mark B

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Got this back from the CRAG RTL down there.

Powys is one of the most BOAT rich counties in England and Wales. Many other routes are pure UCR and so will be unaffected by NERC. It is unfortunate that within the Brecon Beacon National Park virtually all routes are to become Restricted Byway. However this does not mean that they will 100% lose their vehicular right. Many of the better known routes such as Sarn Helen (North), Talybont and The Gap would almost certainly be worth contesting on the five year main use rule. As we are still waiting for NERC to come into force in Wales, we are still someway from the battle.

Hope this helps

Mark B

That has cheered me up a little. :)

I did not get the guy's name, he may have meant RUPPs or the dual status UCRs we were taling about.

MarkB, would you care to elaborate a little on the "five year main use rule"?

Thanks

Confused of Trowbridge ;)

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Re NERC coming into force. I spoke to a guy at Monmouthshire Council, Gwyn, today too. It seems that they do not know when to expect NERC but suggested that they had been told to expect it some time around November. He was uncertain wether RUPPs were still fair game but suggested that there was sufficient uncertainty about it that it would probably be OK.

Chris

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Re NERC coming into force. I spoke to a guy at Monmouthshire Council, Gwyn, today too. It seems that they do not know when to expect NERC but suggested that they had been told to expect it some time around November. He was uncertain wether RUPPs were still fair game but suggested that there was sufficient uncertainty about it that it would probably be OK.

Chris

We had better plan a trip or two then before November as there are plenty of lanes I'd like to do again knowing that we are likely to lose them.

The contested rule, means that if you can prove regular vehicle use over the last 5 years then it's possible to have it allowed for vehicular use. The problem is there is no definition of what you would call such a route as there is no way they would make it a BOAT and RUPP is gone post NERC. Anyway that's just semantics. With a ROAD like Sarn Helen it should be really easy to prove usage by vehicles, but for most other probably not.

I do find this ironic too, as surely those lanes with a history of TRO's for repair top damage caused by vehicle use have built in proof that it was used by vehicles! :) And yet most of these are the ones they are trying to ban vehicles from :rolleyes::rolleyes: Far from that simple but still Ironic! :lol:

Cheers

Steve

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Dont know if you seen this.

Paul

Thanks for the e-mail. The situation in Wales is slightly different. The provisions within the CROW Act have been passed by the Assembly - they came into force on the 11th of May 2006.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/legislation/wales/w...6/20061279e.htm

DEFRA also made regulations on behalf of England and Wales on Restricted Byways - these also came into force in Wales on the 11th May.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/uksi_20061177_en.pdf

But section 66-72 of the NERC Act have not come into force as yet in Wales - this is unlikely to happen until November - due to the elongated procedures that we have to follow in making secondary legislation in Wales.

Therefore the RUPPs have been classified as Restricted Byways is Wales. The best place to see what the effect of the NERC Act provisions is to look at the Explanatory Notes for the Act - I have attached the relevant part to this e-mail.

It is not easy to follow the changes here sorry - but hopefully this will set it down as to what has been commenced in Wales.

Angharad

Angharad Huws

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The contested rule, means that if you can prove regular vehicle use over the last 5 years then it's possible to have it allowed for vehicular use. The problem is there is no definition of what you would call such a route as there is no way they would make it a BOAT and RUPP is gone post NERC. Anyway that's just semantics. With a ROAD like Sarn Helen it should be really easy to prove usage by vehicles, but for most other probably not.

About right Steve. Also you can not use horse and cart evidence to prove it, but you can still use pre 1937 (I think thats the date) vehicular use to help.

Paul

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That's a "don't know" then, I take it ? :(

Mo

Looks, as I currently understand it, like you might just make it Mo. Don't count on it though if the politicians in the Welsh assmebly discover speed. :)

Chris

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