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Insane "values" of Defenderthingies


Rich_P
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I know I don't post on here much, I'm a mere lurker. :ph34r:

But I am puzzled as to why Defenders and their Ninety/OneTen predecessors carry the price tags that they do for basically ****e? :huh: It's constantly bugged me why they have what I regard as an over-inflated price tag. Is this brought about by numptiness of people in general who think dat dey r da bestest eveeeer or is it something completely different? Is it because they're still in production and easily recognisable? Yet to the average person in the street a Defender is the same as a Series? :huh:

Sorry for my mild questionable rant. :lol:

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Is this an envy thing Rich_P? :P

Defenders cost so much because demand exceeds supply. Why do people like them so much? I cannot say; but when you look around and see that everyone else is wrong when you believe you are right it is time to look inwards and consider if you have missed something.

From a personal perspective, a Defender will pass it's next MOT without the rear body crossmember and sills needing replaced. The bodywork is less prone to damage than a Discovery or RR, and if it is damages the Defender will 'wear' it better. There is less depreciation. I can load mucky stuff in the back without damaging the carpet. It is clear that I am not a Chelsea Farmer!

Chris

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BecUae they are hard-wearing, practical vehicles for farmers, utility companies etc. Also, by sheer chance they are visually quite well designed and have gained a following. The Defender (or Defndoor if your American :P) has great offroad performance and these vehicles are hand made to exacting (sic: wobbly) standards.

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I think its because as others have said- you have the useability and ruggedness of a series with all the same ease of maintenance, no nasty bodywork rust problems like Rangies or Discos and the coil springiness does make them much more sensible for everyday use.

I have a series2 and an old 90 and when I first bought the 90 it was like night and day!

I could hear what passengers were saying to me when travelling at speed, didn't need spinal surgery from traversing speed humps, and could keep up with normal traffic- more importantly I could stop like normal traffic too.

I love my series 2, but a 90 or 110 is just so much easier all around.

Then my Dad got a 110 CSW, and that is better again! Sound proofed, and the ride is less choppy than the 90 too :D

So its just all the benefits of a series vehicle, with less of the drawbacks...

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Errr, you have not mentioned the real reason for the highly inflated price - Defenders are Cool, (they even feature in the ice cool section on Jezza's cool wall), and highly desirable by many who simply see them as fashion icons. And fashion always means ££££££££ or $$$$$$$$$$$

But yes, the supply/demand issue is relevant too; as is the seasonal high caused by the panic to own a 4x4 after a couple of mm of snow falls across the country.

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i have recently sold my d1 for scrap money as it had rotted out badly but wat can u do u cant change affected part easily with a defender or series as long as you can get the parts u just change that part and ur away along with supply and demand a defender is a tool people pay good money for good serviceable tools the trick is to buy a defender in late summer when there at there cheapest ;)

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ihave a d90,i really need something bigger,we have 2 ford rangers on the farm,the parts cost is horrendous,it would stop me buying one,all the jap crew cabs seem to have issues somewhere,defenders also have issues,but on the whole are cheaper to repair,i am now on the look out for a 110 van if any one knows of one for sale,my 90 will then be up for grabs,300 tdi,full canvas ,no rot,drives superb,and yes i will want good money for it and i know i will get it!

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I dont think you can really pin the value on any one thing but i reckon on the following drivers:

1. It is a cool iconic car like the mini and the beetle

2. in the heavy snows everyone suddenly needs a 4x4 but not a new one just a little toy to sit on the drive

3. spares are plentiful and cheap support is good and with a haynes manual, screwdiver, spanner and lump hammer can be serviced by anyone

4. Off roading entusiasts have very high regard for the defender and certainly many an SJ/frontera driver has asked if i want to sell.

5. The power steering coil springs synchromesh mean it can be driven daily by any driver.

6. Aluminium body and readily accessible chassis mean its pretty easy to keep going bodily.

For me my wife needs to get to work, whatever, and her daily drive doesn't do snow, i wanted a toy to play with in my old age at 3-4k. i looked at others and they were either rusty as hell, complicated beyond belief or like the RR potential money pits. I came down to freelander S3 or defender, freelander felt a bit tired, the S3 i was made to drive by a mate who has a couple of S1s an S3 and a defender, as he explained why i needed a defender.

in terms of pricing i think they are not that pricey look at www.carandclassic.co.uk and seek similar age capri quattro or other childhood dream.

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I don't agree with most of the comments above - buy a Disco or RR, pull all the carpets out and it's as "practical" and capable as a Defender... mainly 'cos it's the same ruddy thing underneath! The original RR came with vinyl seats and was designed to be hosed out to clean it.

Defenders corrode as badly as anything else - look at door frames, bulkheads, x-members, outriggers... and none of it is significantly easier or cheaper to repair than a RR sill or Disco boot floor, there's just less trim in the way.

So I think it's a few reasons:

- They nearly as cool as a Series, but more comfy.

- People think they're more of a "proper" off roader than RR/Disco/Freebie

- People think they are more solid/reliable etc. than RR/Disco despite sharing most of the oily bits.

Let's face it, if people were using pure logic to buy cars LR wouldn't sell anything.

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And I guess apart from being cool....

We all spend way too much on them and thus the values of those changing hands is inflated because they are generally not standard ! :)

Thinking of what I've spent on mine makes me shudder...... Could have bought several more for the value...

Will I ever get rid of it.. Probably not.

Is it's resale value anything near what I've spent on it.. Nope...

Do I grin when I drive it.. Mostly.... (But there may be other contributing factors - Wife free zone, nice noise, killing the planet......)

Neil

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There are many reasons why defenders have a high secondhand value, besides what people have written above:

They are very easy to part out, and with ebay and the like, secondhand parts have specific and high values, making the floor of the market for complete cars specific (and high) too.

The second hand market for defenders is a minefield, the huge popularity makes finding a good, solid and reliable defender for little money near impossible (as if it is truly solid and reliable, very few land rover owners will sell!). This allows the cream of the crop to rise in value significantly. Then there are sellers that jump on this bandwagon advertising their car as the cream of the crop, with high prices but actually shoddy underneath. It seams like the market went through this and then the real, actually solid cars went up in value even further!

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But look at the other way around. Slow depreciation works in your favour too.

If for example you bought a 2004 Ford Focus/ for 4,000 quid it will be worth 1,500 3 years later.

Over that same period your '93 defender would lose zero.

Not all old Defenders are expensive.

I've seen the typical fleet owned 10 years old 130" cchcpu and the like go on sale for very little money, and upon close inspection I've found that it deserved the price tag, because it had seen little maintenance apart from what was absolutely necessary to pass the MOT and keep it running. Rusted out footwells, rusted out chassis, engine in a poor state, transmission and steering worn out etc. all due to careless use & driving by company employees and lack of maintenance.

At the same time there are lots of 20 year old 90" and 110" on sale for 3-5 times as much money and deservedly so, because they have been owned and used by people who cared for them. They have had regular oil changes, their footwells and chassis have been cleaned out and allowed to dry after muddy work, they have had parts changed or serviced as that started to wear etc.

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I think its just down to it being a utility vehicle. Utility vehicles don't fall into the 'consumer' bracket.

Cars have no real function beyond taking a family along the roads - and mixed into that is the consumer desire to have a 'newer' car - the newer version. So quickly they become out of date as each facelift / new model is brought out.

Whereas a Defender changes little in appearance - and whether its the newest version or not it can still serve a purpose as an off road capable light utility vehicle. So from the point of view of fulfilling its role - if it can its still worth the money.

I think 2nd hand plant keeps it money in a similar way.

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The main reason is they're far too expensive new, then by the time they depreciate enough they need major work but despite this because they're too expensive new the numbers sold are significantly lower than the actual demand.

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It's no coincidence that they retain their value.

The 200Tdi and 300Tdi were such a leap in performance from their predecessors and are still widely considered very good engines. Add that to a proven and perfected design of the vehicle itself, the very wide range of uses for the vehicle, the ease at which you can customise the vehicle, and simply the fact that they instil so much passion in their owners and the public at large means that most owners are very meticulous in their upkeep. The number of members on this forum that keep their vehicles in top running order proves this last point.

The main reason is the passion their owners and prospective owners have for them though. You can put the Defender in with the likes of Ferrari, Porsche, Rolls Royce et al in so much as they are a vehicle that people desire to own, quite often from an early age. How many people grow up with a burning desire to one day owning a Ford Focus or a Renault Megan? The number of Land Rover publications and magazines available is also a measure of this.

My 200Tdi is worth £20,000. Well to me anyway; I would not consider selling it for less. The truth is I bought it about 2 years ago for £4200 and was recently offered £5k for it (by a dealer). They will always be in demand and the older ones will continued to be considered classic cars. Classic cars with a twist, that is.

The Land Rover Defernder is a legend in its field (in fact, it is a legend in most fields, particularly muddy farmers fields :P ) and people love them. They don't just like them (in the way that you really like the new Focus or the new BMW 5 series), they love them. They are not a disposable car that you look to drive for a few years before trading up for the next one. They are a car that you hope to own for the rest of your life.

Just my 2 shillings and six pence worth ;)

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