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Absolute cr..... "rubbish" on TV


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Guest diesel_jim

Anyone hear that bullsh!t "story" on GMTV and in the paper today, a "study" has shown that 4x4 drivers are more likely to flout the mobile phone ban and not wear seatbelts than normal poor meak 4x2 drivers? :angry: :angry: :angry:

What a complete load of opinionated f***ing carp! what about every BMW/mercedes/modeo man driver who flouts said laws?

maybe we should leak a story "a study shows that the average 2-England-flag-on-car football supporter is more likely to drink drive (on way home from a match/pub) and beat his wife/kids/monkey" and see how the "mere 4x2 driving mortals" start crying!!!

f***ing tosser press!!!

And i notice that the people who carried out this "report" remain nameless...... :unsure::angry:

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....... and another thing - have you seen the front page of the Independant this morning???...... GMTV made apoint of showing it in their front-page round-up, but I'm pleased to see that the Beeb omitted it from their's.

What IS the world coming to?...... I'm also a legal, safety-conscious shooter - seems my ownership of 2 diesel disco's that do more mpg than the average executive saloon is becoming as politically-incorrect as gun-ownership...... might have to de-camp from this nanny-state if it gets any worse.

I despair........ the more people I meet, the more I like my dog (present company excluded, of course!)

Dunk (off to lie down in a darkened room 'till I calm down)

Anyone hear that bullsh!t "story" on GMTV and in the paper today, a "study" has shown that 4x4 drivers are more likely to flout the mobile phone ban and not wear seatbelts than normal poor meak 4x2 drivers? :angry: :angry: :angry:

What a complete load of opinionated f***ing carp! what about every BMW/mercedes/modeo man driver who flouts said laws?

maybe we should leak a story "a study shows that the average 2-England-flag-on-car football supporter is more likely to drink drive (on way home from a match/pub) and beat his wife/kids/monkey" and see how the "mere 4x2 driving mortals" start crying!!!

f***ing tosser press!!!

And i notice that the people who carried out this "report" remain nameless...... :unsure::angry:

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BBC news has just added to the story-

Acording to the British Medical Journal - 4x4 drivers are more likely to flout the law and use a mobile phone while driving and not wear a seat belt. (1 in 6 apparently)

This is a 'major safety issue'

Unbelieveable rubbish!

Les. :angry:

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Guest diesel_jim

And why are "medical journals" worrying about transport issues?

surely they should be trying to cure the common cold/aids/cancer etc?

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The darkened room didn't help....... so I've just left a message on the GMTV website, with a very polite and calm observation about the flaws in their reporting on the 4x4 issue. Doubt they'll read it out though.

I'm starting to understand why Eamonn Holmes left and went to do something more serious, like present the lottery ;)

Dunk

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Same article in the independent this morning. Might I suggest a carefully worded letters to the editor as an outlet for your feelings, rather than "preaching to the choir" here :-)

I've already written in to the indie (I've got a good track record getting stuff published in the local rags, let's see if they bite on this one).

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Managed to send a message just now to the BMJ

I heard on BBC News 24 this morning that the British Medical Journal has stated that '4x4 drivers are more likely to flout the law with regards to using a mobile phone while driving and not wearing a seat belt'. Can you confirm that your journal did in fact make that statement and could you please tell me where you got your information from.

Lets see if they reply.

Les.

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IF the seat belt was say conducted on contractors/farmers on private land etc then there may be a grain of truth in that bit, but what a load of carp how many cars pass you with guys on the phone with it to their ear, loads of them round here and a good mix of all sorts i would argue.

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Seat belts??? Suggest they go and look outside some local primary schools!

NO I dont mean the fee paying private school where little Jimmy is taken there in a Chelsea tractor.

I mean inner city schools, especially in deprived areas.

6/7+kids in a 5 seater car. None with seat belts on.

Mum or dad parked on pavement/double yellows/zigzag lines etc.

Darn sight more dangerous and very few if any 4 x 4s in sight.

Is this the result of an offical/MJ study. Nope, just what I observe on a frequent basis

Regards

Leeds

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Similar piece on Radio 4's Today prog this morning including an interview with one of the researchers (who sounded about 15), I think I heard her say the research observations were carried out during the period of grace after the phone law was introduced.

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Remember a lot of reps these days drive Subarus, Audi Allroads, Volvo XC's and other small SUV's - all 4x4's, so the data may actually be accurate (although I wouldn't hold my breath) the reporting is certainly a load of tabloid b*ll*cks.

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ahh, opps, I have a reasonably obscene 4x4 and a cross of St George, I dont like football but I do have guns

So Im just off to ring the wife to tell her to get ready for a beating as I run over some grannies - wheres my hoody??

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All i can say is move to Aus where you are in the majority when you own a 4x4 :lol:

It is standard here for people to drive around with Bull bars and snorkle on their trucks. In fact they look weird if they don't have it

Even a ford ad has aload of 4x4 turning up to drop the kids of at school as is the norm here

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All i can say is move to Aus where you are in the majority when you own a 4x4 :lol:

It is standard here for people to drive around with Bull bars and snorkle on their trucks. In fact they look weird if they don't have it

Even a ford ad has aload of 4x4 turning up to drop the kids of at school as is the norm here

There are probably a few good reasons to move to Australia, but freedom from persecution by the anti 4wd media isn't one of them.

I don't know what it is like in Queensland but just about everywhere else in Australia we have the same anti 4x4 media bull**** on TV and print media. If you get these programs up there try tuning in to ''A Current Affair'' or ''This Day Tonight''. They have had an anti 4wd campaign for years now. And when the news media report on traffic accidents and a 4wd vehicle is involved they always emphasise the fact that the accident involved a 4wd vehicle. Police have been hassling offroaders at popular localities on a regular basis doing roadworthy inspections in the forest, ticketing people for having dirty head lights, tail lights and number plates just after exiting tracks with deep muddy waterholes.

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I just read this ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5107708.stm

It would appear that Imperial College London did the research and the BMJ published it / commented on it. This is the usual way of things in the medical journals. The BMJ is a reputable journal and all the published research is subject to peer reviews (See here: http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/advice/peer_review.shtml). I haven't found the specific article on their website, so it may not yet be publicly available online. I'll have a look in the recent paper copies and see what it says.

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Right, I've got the BMJ article. I don't know if it is publicly available yet ( I have access for research purposes). Try the link in the below press release to see if you can access the full research article.

Here's the press release from the BMJ ...

(2) 4x4 DRIVERS MORE LIKELY TO FLOUT MOBILE PHONE AND SEAT BELT LAWS

Online First

(Unsafe driving behaviour and four wheel drive vehicles: observational study)

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.38848.627731.2F

Drivers of four wheel drive vehicles are more likely to flout laws regarding mobile phones and seat belts than drivers of other cars, finds a study published on bmj.com today.

This is a major public health concern and greater efforts are needed to educate the public and enforce these laws, argue the authors.

The study took place at three different sites in Hammersmith, West London. Private passenger vehicles were observed Monday to Friday for one hour in the morning (9-10 am), afternoon (1-2 pm), and early evening (4-5 pm).

The first observations were carried out in February 2004, within the “grace” period regarding use of hand held mobile phones, during which police only cautioned offenders. Observations were repeated one month later, after police began to impose penalties for non-compliance with the new law.

A total of 38,182 normal cars and 2,944 four wheel drive vehicles were included in the analysis. Overall, almost one in six drivers (15.3%) was not wearing a seat belt and one in 40 (2.5%) was using a hand held mobile phone while he or she passed the observer.

Drivers of four wheel drive vehicles were almost four times more likely than drivers of other cars to be seen using hand held mobile phones. They were also more likely not to comply with the law on seat belts.

Levels of non-compliance with both laws were slightly higher in the penalty phase of observation than during the grace period, and breaking one law was associated with an increased likelihood of breaking the other.

“Our data show a worryingly high level of non-compliance with laws on seat belts and hand held mobile phones by drivers in London, and almost no effect of the end of the grace period on the use of a mobile phone while driving,” write the authors. “Our observation that almost one in six drivers was not wearing a seatbelt is a major public health concern,” they add.

The findings also support the theory of risk compensation, which predicts that drivers of four wheel drive vehicles feel safer and therefore take more risks when driving.

Although four wheel drive vehicles are safer in a crash, their owners may be placing themselves and other road users at increased risk of injury, warn the authors.

Contact:

Lesley Walker, Research Associate, Department of Primary Care and Social Medicine, Imperial College, London, UK

Email: lemorph@hotmail.com

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So which vehicles were they classing as 4x4's - only "off-roaders", or anything with four wheels driven? Where is the line drawn between say an Audi Quattro and a BMW X3 / X5 / Range Rover Sport / Range Rover?

Would they class a Series as 4x4 even though it's 4x2 on-road?

One would hope that if this was any sort of serious research they would have this data to hand, otherwise it's so ambiguous as to be completely meaningless :rolleyes:

As Mandy says - it's LONDON, so the majority of 4x4 owners are going to be the chelsea tractor crowd anyway. If they did the same survey outside a school in a rural community where people *need* 4x4's would they see the opposite result - those who have 4x4's out of necessity driving better than townie posers in BMW's etc.?

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In defence of the original researcher, in the original article, they do pretty much always refer to drivers in London specifically and have not themselves extrapolated the findings to the rest of the country. The BBC etc are guilty of that.

E.g. "Drivers of four wheel drive vehicles in London were four

times more likely than drivers of other cars to use hand

held mobile phones and slightly more likely not to comply

with the law on seat belts"

As for the vehicles classed as 4x4s ....

"Collection of data

The survey was limited to private passenger vehicles; we

excluded taxis, buses, vans, and trucks.We categorised passenger

vehicles into cars (defined as vehicles that are not designed to

travel off road) and four wheel drive vehicles (we compiled a list

of these vehicles by searching the internet for major motor vehicle

manufacturers and sales outlets)."

Hardly clear is it. Maybe we should request a a copy of the list from the article's author.

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