4x4 Quandry - what should I maybe buy ?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Right

Much thought and angst has gone in to this, I have at the mo as my daily driver a 09 BMW M Sport

Lovely car, goes like '**** orf la Shovelle', but, in this weather it is only beaten into 2nd place in being completely hopeless

by Suz car an MX5 Convertible. In the snow ice the BMW is truly lethal, and the weather now seems to be a yearly occurance

Whilst I love teararsing about in the 90, is not a great shopping car, or anything sensible, and in 2011 will get even less so ,

so no good for Suz - so for some time I have been thinking of changing for 'something 4x4', hence why this is in international.

So, few questions

Freelander 2s as in "Brand Spanking" new - just how bad is the build quality now ?

Anyone have seriously sensible solid views rather than mate of a friend of a bloke down the pub stylee ?

I have never ever considered shelling out hard earned money on a new LR as I have always felt belived and had friends who

have vowed they regret the day they ever bought one, so are the new Freelander 2s, RR Sports truly as bad as I hear ?

And if so (and I am of the opinion at the mo that they are seriously dreadfull) then what new 4x4 would you buy ?

I'd like auto, and no not a defender and some creature comforts, fuel economy would be good, but relaibily has to be

at the top of things, so.....

Go for it

Makes models thoughts please - this is serious, can't take another year of the above

And if anyone fancies a BMW in early 2011 with 20,000 miles and high spec then PM me

Nige

[Jon White]

My dads just bought a freelander 2.

They are leaps and bounds better than the old model! Even Darryl says they're good! Pretty damn good off road too - we did a lap of the sidbury comp safari track in one a couple of years back - 5 up and the thing was amazing! Didnt get stuck once etc etc......

Dad managed 42mpg out of his on the way up to me at the weekend too!

Jon

[smokinv8]

Maybe not quite what you were thinking but Ive got a Nissan Navara D40 which I have found very good at all things, and you pay a much lower level of road tax due to it being classed as a commercial vehicle. Go for the Aventura spec like I did and you get enough creature comforts to keep you happy but downside is fuel economy, even in 2wd i can only manage 27mpg but it has oodles of power with its 170bhp (i think?)2.5 diesel and if that aint enough then soon they are putting out a 3 litre V6 diesel too.

[simon_s]

Subaru Forester.

[Bowie69]

Ditto, why buy a 4x4 when you can just buy a car with four wheel drive? Subaru of any flavour would be top of my list, maybe even a 280bhp import one

[suggs]

ditch the BM and buy a new or late Disco 3 or 4 diesel and no less than top of the range, it will do everything you want, looks great and feels great to drive. i think you will regret buying a Freelander, no offence to any owners here but to me the Freelander is the poor relation and going from an 09 M sport to a freelander cant see you being happy mate.

some years ago we went from a Scooby to a then current Disco 2 XS, wasnt top of the range and to loose my scoob for it i ended up regretting id not bought the top spec disco, 6 months later i traded it for another Disco this time top model ES Premium and never gave the scooby another thought...

[BogMonster]

What do you want to do with it? Does it have to be a mile munching 5 door estate, or is utility vehicle an option? What sort of money are you looking at spending?

My daily car is a Ford Ranger crewcab, with AT2s on it copes with snow and ice very well, ok it was beaten in winter 09 but only by the depths of the drifts (3ft deep in places) and I had a Defender stuck in some of them on 33" tyres so not really a major criticism - if the wheels could touch the ground I could generally get through

Nuclear powered heater, engine warms up quickly, nice to drive (tight transmission, slick gearbox) but then it's a Mazda with a blue oval on the front so you'd expect that. Mine is one of the old Mk2s but my next car will be a Mk3 possibly with an ARB fibreglass top on it though I carry drums in the back of mine so that wouldn't be ideal but otherwise a hardtop makes the vehicle a lot more versatile and you can carry a lot of busted diffs in the back and then wash it out with a steam cleaner

As said the Freelander 2 is a big improvement on the old model, that said it is still a LR and there will be some minor irritations from time to time so you won't get the sort of dull reliability you get from the Far East and I'm not sure I'd keep one for a long time, too complicated. I'd probably buy one though - I just have no real use for it unless I sold the Discovery and with the amount I use that, I'd sooner keep it and have near enough zero depreciation (it's immaculate but now worth F all due to being a V8). Performance wise I love the F2 diesel manual, it goes really well, not tried an auto. It's also loaded with traction aids which really work, which the Ranger isn't. Terrain Response is bloody brilliant. I don't know what the F2 is like on snow but the old ones were good and I expect the new one will be better as I've seen TR working overtime in situations that Freelanders have no right to be good in, and I was genuinely impressed.

The only car in the LR range I would definitely not buy is a early Disco 3 as they had the reliability of an old Lada, just absolutely useless, time will tell if the 4 is any better but later (08/09) D3s do seem much better and you know what I do for a living so I have a pretty good view. It's a great car when everything works, but therein lies the problem...! For the same reason I'd not look at an early RRS as most of the underpinnings are the same as a D3. I'd love a RRS though, just worried that it would be like a D3 in all the wrong ways.

If I went Japanese I'd probably get a Toyota LC though the problem is they look like they were designed by somebody with their eyes nearly shut... Toyota diesels are as good as anything though. The Mitsubishi engine sounds like a tractor (possibly actually worse than a Tdi) so forget a Shogun.

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

LR3

Madness for anything out of warranty

ie if your clutch ges to change the clutch you have to

TAKE THE BODY OFF ffs

No, LR3 is out, wnat new, say £30-35k relaibility comfort and economy (Yes don't wnat much)

Scooby Forester - thats something I'd never though about - great idea !

heard they are ultra relaible and good VFM ?

Nige

[martifers]

I concur. Unless you or Suz are taking it for more than field play then the 4x4 suburu's / volvo's / audi's (also satisfy your speed bug ) would be a good shout. My pop recently got rid of his F2, had it for about 18 months. It didn't put a foot wrong and we were very happy with it other than having no low range / a low enough gear to manoeuvre loaded trailers around easily. The 2 ton towing restriction was also annoying. He swapped it for a Lovely D2 which is now mapped. It doesn't quite pull aswell as the F2's TD4 did (that went suprisingly well ) but it has the gearing and towing capability he needed.

[crclifford]

LR3

Madness for anything out of warranty

ie if your clutch ges to change the clutch you have to

TAKE THE BODY OFF ffs

No, LR3 is out, wnat new, say £30-35k relaibility comfort and economy (Yes don't wnat much)

Scooby Forester - thats something I'd never though about - great idea !

heard they are ultra relaible and good VFM ?

Nige

well i second the scooby forester vote....

As you can see in my tag, i have a 59 plate and it is bloody brilliant, had no trouble getting to work or anything in it at the start of the year, i even managed to pull a fair amount.

It's a 2 litre diesal XSN model, with a few other things added by the dealer that i wanted (side steps, TMC controlled Sat Nav rather than the plain one), all up around 27k mark.

And best of all, according to the trip computer i get about 42.9mpg...but i think it's more likely around 38-40mpg (just as i never quite trust the onboard things!!)

Chris

(and you'd have some change form your budget!!)

[MJIbex]

Nige,

I can honestly tell you that Freelander 2's are hugely reliable. The build quaility is spot on; they are made at Halewood - not Solihull! Used only thing to look out for, user clutch abuse if manual, and not massively common:- rear diff noise, door locks/handles/latches all work, steering rack (80k+ miles).

Body off is very quick on a D3, not needed for a clutch change though! Would agree about being careful about what you buy out of warranty.

The new 190BHP Freelander is fairly quick, not BMW large diesel small car quick, but sub 9 second to 60mph; and has all the goodies for £35k.

Mark

[gazelle]

It would be much cheaper to buy a set of winter tyres for it. Seems to work on the continent.

[broken90]

Another vote for something Subaru.

I had a Subaru Impreza (not the chavved up version, just a sensible estate) in last years snow, it was absolutely awesome, the handling and control in snow were spot on, it would pull away on icy slopes that had bmw x5's (and similar) sat there spinning on! I was much happier driving the subaru than I am my current discovery The impreza would go a fair distance off road too!

[FridgeFreezer]

Set of spare rims + winter tyres, mate did the same with his 530d and drove to Czech republic and back last winter in all the snow, seemed very impressed. Nokian Hakkapeliitta are supposed to be the absolute mutts danglies snow tyre.

[nige90]

Another vote for the Subaru, either a Forrester or a Legacy. My sister has one of each and

had yet to let her down.

My uncle in Ontario was a Subaru tech, swears by them and they get some pretty extreme winters.

Now they finally do a diesel option they have economy too !

[Pwyll]

Another vote for the Scooby. Acres of space, comfortable to drive, simple to look after and good mpg. After my Disco "disagreed" with a stone wall last winter, it was the Forester that did all the fetching and carrying of bits. The trip to the local LR breakers is down a steep hill that was covered in snow at the time, just pulled the four wheel drive lever up and she trickled down on bog standard road tyres, and got out again to boot.

[Daan]

Something with narrow tyres; my 206 is great in the snow, I reckon mainly due to the skinny 165 tyres. Maybe just get some narrow wheels and tyres when you need it. Still, the landy is awesome in the snow, so I just drive that as long as the roads are white.

Daan

[Davedef90]

LR3

Madness for anything out of warranty

ie if your clutch ges to change the clutch you have to

TAKE THE BODY OFF ffs

No, LR3 is out, wnat new, say £30-35k relaibility comfort and economy (Yes don't wnat much)

Scooby Forester - thats something I'd never though about - great idea !

heard they are ultra relaible and good VFM ?

Nige

Not sure about the clutch but the book says take the body off for the turbo if it needs changing. No longer needed. A lot of independants have done it quickly/cheaply with the body on. If you buy from a dealer you get 12 month warranty and a 3rd party warranty isn't that dear.

As for the rest, spend a bit on BBS MSV box of tricks and you have more fault finding/upgrading capability than a dealership.

There is a bloke on the D3 forum, I think it's the bloke who owns BBS. He purchased and base spec D3 and rewired it and specc'd it to HSE. So it can be done.

Have a flick through the D3 forum and you'll see that so many things can be achieved, even fitting flappy paddles for gear change. Heated steering wheel from the RRS/D4.

So you'd still get to tinker, but it wouldn't be in 16" plate steel

Remember people only shout when they have a problem with their car. How many posts on here are there from people saying that this week they have had no problems with their ride

[steve b]

What about one of these?

There is one on fleabay at the moment - no connection - just saw it in a moment of boxing day boredom

More practical would be a Scooby I reckon , ticks all the boxs

cheers

Steveb

[gazelle]

I too have a Turbo free Scooby Impreza and have been impressed by the capabilities on road in the snow/ice. Just be aware of the huge fuel and service costs with very low mileages between services, and stupidly placed spark plugs, regular changes of timing belts etc. For you information from a stealer the parts for a timing belt change on an Impreza come in at around £500! Just one tensioner is £170 (+VAT! £130 from an independent).

On the good side, you can pick up a low mileage car for next to nothing.

Would still go for a set of winter tyres though - much cheaper in the long run.

Cheers

Martin

[forkrentfitter]

LR3

Madness for anything out of warranty

ie if your clutch ges to change the clutch you have to

TAKE THE BODY OFF ffs

No, LR3 is out, wnat new, say £30-35k relaibility comfort and economy (Yes don't wnat much)

Scooby Forester - thats something I'd never though about - great idea !

heard they are ultra relaible and good VFM ?

Nige

nige,you don,t have to take the body off,but you have to cut a 2" hole in the floor!!!my mate does them for suffolk police.

[Davedef90]

Or just buy an auto. So much better. Having had both, the auto wins hands down. With a BAS(*) remap the auto would be perfect.

* Other remaps are available

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Another vote for something Subaru.

I had a Subaru Impreza (not the chavved up version, just a sensible estate) in last years snow, it was absolutely awesome, the handling and control in snow were spot on, it would pull away on icy slopes that had bmw x5's (and similar) sat there spinning on! I was much happier driving the subaru than I am my current discovery The impreza would go a fair distance off road too!

Confised

WHY would a X5 spin about - reason for asking - considering one and there £40+K

Imprezza is also on the list of maybes

Nige

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

Set of spare rims + winter tyres, mate did the same with his 530d and drove to Czech republic and back last winter in all the snow, seemed very impressed. Nokian Hakkapeliitta are supposed to be the absolute mutts danglies snow tyre.

##Tried a spare set of rims and M&S tyres loanded to me could not get off the drive

Seems the latest stuff traction control + DSC = F all

Car back on drive, tryes and rims back with mate and flower bed next to drive should heal

Nige

[longlandy]

My Audi rs6 is good in snow ,fast comfortable and when driven sensibly does better mpg than my zuk