elbekko Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'd never, ever trust a GPS to give reliable information, especially if it would be used to brake a wheel. An accelerometer would be more trustworthy. And a wheel speed sensor can't be too hard to make, even without drilling into the axle casing. If you have a vented disc brake you could probably count the internal ribs passing by the caliper with a VR sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 haha Si. you should market that! "The all new land Rover axle saver!" "Turns down the power on your 2,25 diesel when needed to avoid axle failure" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Turns down the power on your 2,25 diesel when needed to avoid axle failure" Loving it :hysterical: :hysterical: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Loving it :hysterical: :hysterical: Don't laff, only time I ever snapped a half shaft was in a 2286 diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troddenmasses Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 How about a form of poor man's diff lock - if the vehicle started to spin a wheel you could modulate that brake to get the traction back onto the grounded wheel - perfect for a cross axle in a Freelander? Or have I missed the point entirely, it's always possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That'd pretty much standard traction control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 How about a form of poor man's diff lock - if the vehicle started to spin a wheel you could modulate that brake to get the traction back onto the grounded wheel - perfect for a cross axle in a Freelander? Or have I missed the point entirely, it's always possible. Not missed the point, but hit precisely on the head what the unit does when it's brains are intact. That's why Freebies and the rest of the modern LR fleet are surprisingly capable. Happily I have real lockers on the 109 so not a major issue. Selective braking via 2nd callipers seems like a favourite, with an unlocked LT230 you could do fiddles and front/rear digs, assuming the centre diff would put up with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Much more prosaic, I know, but how about just an open source ABS system for older vehicles? with a tap for rear air brakes for a trailer? Just shooting the breeze. I know there are huge product liability issues, but............... G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Much more prosaic, I know, but how about just an open source ABS system for older vehicles? Actually, that's a pretty good idea! Making it open source avoids most of the potential liability issues. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 There's (very expensive) aftermarket traction control for racers, but that acts on the engine power/revs I believe. TBH a lot of early ABS systems were standalone add-ons to the existing vehicle, so barring a bit of wiring they should be transferable to other vehicles. Of course there will be detail differences and I would guess the FL one will want to send a few messages to & fro on the CANBUS for full functionality, but none of that is insurmountable. CANBUS enabled micros are peanuts these days. Megasquirt can talk CANBUS. Wonder how a bolt-on ABS/ETC kit would stack up against the time & effort & effect of buying & fitting lockers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Wonder how a bolt-on ABS/ETC kit would stack up against the time & effort & effect of buying & fitting lockers? I think it would quite well, so long as there is a good solution to the wheel sensors. Probably better to at least have the option to use off the shelf TTL inductive pickups like RS sell as they seem to be more bomb-proof than Freelander sensors at least. The plumbing is pretty easy and so long as the electrickery was made simple - I think people would go for it. Particularly if it could give the equivalent of difflocks for steering (non straight paths) i.e. an advantage over what a difflock gives you. Combine it with button operated front & rear fiddle brakes and you're on to a winner! I guess you could pitch it as intelligent fiddle brakes - ones which genuinely do act as a traction as well as steering aid! If it operated with separate calipers to the service brakes, it further avoids most liability issues. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Liability should be simple, just note "not for road use" and "the use of this system is fully at your own risk" in the EULA. As for the speed sensor, what I said earlier (reading the disk brake) would probably work, but probably not in deep muck (although the MS VR sensor seems to work just fine in those conditions). An added problem is drum brakes though, you'd have to find a way to mount it internally probably. Oh, and solid disks aren't an option either In the words of my super-awesome Paint skills: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superpants Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 The standard Wabco ABS module that was fitted on at least earlier defenders is pretty much stand alone. It needs some power up it, and obviously the wheel speed sensor inputs, but as far as I can remember needs nothing else from the vehicle (on CAN bus or otherwise). Lastly it has a few warning lights that could be fitted in anywhere. The systems can be a bit sensitive to EMC and cable specs (capacitance etc), so it would be best to use the sensors available from the OEM manufacturer, but these are not difficult to source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 isn't the disco and rrc system stand alone too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Yup, it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 OT: you could use them in a hydraulic system to give a telehandler Parkinsons disease, to shake the bucket as it tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If I were adding it, I would make a sleeve which goes on to a half shaft with a splined profile, held in place with a grub-screw. Then drill a hole in the axle casing for the sensor. Then it would be transferable between shafts and have sufficient resolution in the splines for reliable operation - and be a saleable after-market part. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Myes, but having to drill and tap a hole in the axle casing isn't exactly a bolt-on mod I'd say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If I were adding it, I would make a sleeve which goes on to a half shaft with a splined profile, held in place with a grub-screw. Then drill a hole in the axle casing for the sensor. Then it would be transferable between shafts and have sufficient resolution in the splines for reliable operation - and be a saleable after-market part. Si Myes, but having to drill and tap a hole in the axle casing isn't exactly a bolt-on mod I'd say. Axle breather hole? Or is it too far in for the shaft sheath to reach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 That's only on one side though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 14, 2011 Author Share Posted January 14, 2011 Depending on the resolution required, you can sense from all sorts of places as long as they're attached to a wheel. You could even put two sensors in the diff where the shafts engage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 That's only on one side though. Good point. D'oh! Could a magnet provide a pickup pulse/signal through the axle casing? Whatever the sensor technology, robustness MUST be a driving design criterion. It must be mud, salt, sand, rock and shale proof. Of all the great ideas I like the retrofit ABS/TC/HDC idea best. If it could be made to work on drum brakes I'd be liking it a lot. I don't see why it HAS to be disk based - though it's too early in the morning for my brain to be working properly so I could be talking rubbish. The trailer ABS is a bit more specialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Fit some RRC or similar axles which have ABS rings and sensors already built into the hubs.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 OK, have a ring attached to the shaft and a top-hat which sits in the end of the axle with the brim sandwiched between the stub axle and axle. Wires pass through gaps in the brim and the sensor is built in to the 'hat'. Or supply a compression fitting which will allow wires to pass through an un-tapped hole. Honestly though, someone fitting TC or ABS could reasonably be expected to be able to drill a hole - no? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Honestly though, someone fitting TC or ABS could reasonably be expected to be able to drill a hole - no? Yup, I mean people have to drill and tap cast to fit an ARB, at least an axle tube is pretty thin wall. God help DIY fitters of KAM lockers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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