geoffbeaumont Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Just started the RR up after putting all the crank pulleys and things back - sounds like one of those nasty oil burners The noise seems to be coming from the top of the block, and sounds like a louder version of the noisy tappets on my old car. Timing? I've had the crank pulley apart mounting a trigger wheel for the distributorless ignition, but all appears fine in that department - belts are all fine, the trigger wheel isn't fouling anything and there's no abnormal noises from that area. I've had the plugs out and been turning the engine over from the crank pulley by hand, but that shouldn't have done any harm? What should I be looking at? Any idea if it's likely to be driveable or not (yes I know, kind of hard to say without hearing it)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO3528 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Has the timing slipped somehow while you've had the pulley off? I don't see how unless the key has broken and loosening the pulley has allowed the bottom gear to move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 How can I check? Any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_Star Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Half a mo. Distributerless ignition? So you've done away with the dizzy? How are you driving the oil pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO3528 Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Well after the mammoth (for the RR forum) Mega-Squirt thread I sort of assumed that the dizzy was left in place to drive it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 I haven't done away with the dizzy yet - I'm still fitting all the bits for the distributorless ignition - but yes, the distributor will be left in place to drive the oil pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_Star Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 OK, Sorry I once heard of a story of someone who fitted some kind of distributerless ignition, including a blanking plate for the dizzy hole... Can you see where this is going?! If the timing has moved, the only way I can think of for checking involves getting the timing cover off and looking at wheels ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted August 8, 2005 Author Share Posted August 8, 2005 My current theory (based on not a lot of knowledge ) is that my camshaft/tappets are knackered. I think it's only got really obvious because it's not making a racket misfiring now I guess the only way to be sure about that is to take the top off the engine, which isn't going to happen before I go away to the Lake District at the end of this week (supposed to be towing up there too...might pass on that, I think...). I reckon it's already been like it for quite a while though. If I have been driving around with a knackered cam (and dodgy ignition) for some time, what am I likely to have wrecked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted August 8, 2005 Share Posted August 8, 2005 Geoff, When you added the trigger wheel, you didn't alter the spacing of the pulleys did you. Maybe the belts are running slightly out of line and have changed the loading on the water pump and that is what is making the noise... or maybe the water pump is just knackered and now you've had the belts off and put back on with proper tension, the bearings are showing their true colours... I'm not inclined to head towards the tappets and cam.... If the cam is really bad, the car might run lke a back of rubbish but I don't see why it would make a whole load of noise... I replaced my cam a year or two ago and two of the profiles were almost so worn they looked like round journals. The worst noise you would get would be a knackered tappet and that just ticks.... If it is the water pump, I would not be heading to the lakes without replacing it... Give all of the pulleys a wiggle and the one that moves may be the culprit. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 It'd better not be...the water pump's only about nine months old. I'll check it anyway, but I don't think it's that. Last time it went there was no rattling until it got really bad - then I found out where the coolant had been pissing out from I'm certain I haven't displaced the belts - been very carefully to mount the trigger wheel in a way that avoids that. Besides, I'm sure it was doing it before the weekend, it's just that it isn't masked by the ignition now. It actually seems to be running pretty well - it's rattly but pulling fairly well. Then again, compared to how it was with the feeble spark I had before anything would seem good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 You could try running some engine flush through & changing the oil, if a tappet is stuck / gunged up that can clear it. My uncle used to trade cars, would buy "dodgy" ones with noisy engines, run some flushing oil through and they'd often perk up & quieten down and be fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted August 9, 2005 Author Share Posted August 9, 2005 Umm, I've got a rather embarrasing confession to make The ignition timing was a wee bit out...about 20deg advanced... It's running beautifully now. How the hell did it get that far out?!! Only thing I can think of is that I didn't clamp the distributor properly and it worked round gradually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highway_Star Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Wouldn't be the first time that some limp wristed spanner work has come to light, I won't name names, but he's TORs photographer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Geoff, Thats the best kind of result - Identify the definitive answer then adjust with no permanent damage. Good man for closing out the thread too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honitonhobbit Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 You could try running some engine flush through & changing the oil, if a tappet is stuck / gunged up that can clear it.My uncle used to trade cars, would buy "dodgy" ones with noisy engines, run some flushing oil through and they'd often perk up & quieten down and be fine! Just a little tip here: Drain 2 ltrs of oil from the engine and put the sump plug back in. Add 2 ltrs of Drv into the oil filler, RUn the engine on high tickover for 20 mins. Drain all the oil/derv. Change filter and add new oil. Repeat every two oil changes. Derv will dissolve the carbon/sludge/carp deposits but is not as aggressive (or expensive) as a flushing additive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 I gave it a dose of engine flush last time I serviced it - don't know that it made it run any better but it certainly cleaned some muck out the engine, and the oil's stayed nice and clean since. Didn't know you could use derv instead - being a tight-wad already probably put that to the test next time B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbeaumont Posted August 10, 2005 Author Share Posted August 10, 2005 I spoke too soon - still got a definate vibration, possibly getting worse Thinking back, there had to be something more than the ignition timing - it was still there when I tried turning it over without the ignition and fuel before. First candidate has to be the trigger wheel. Unfortunately I can't think of any way to put that to the test other than removing it and putting everything back together without it. At least I'm still running on the dizzy at the moment. How much vibration could the trigger wheel cause? It's only 1mm thick steel, and not visibly off centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Was there not a good thread "somewhere else" which debated the pro's and con's of engine flush... one concern being that you may motivate a bit of debris or carbon off the top of the heads, potentially blocking a tappet.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEANO3528 Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Was there not a good thread "somewhere else" which debated the pro's and con's of engine flush... one concern being that you may motivate a bit of debris or carbon off the top of the heads, potentially blocking a tappet.. I've openly subscribed to that line of thought for a long while. My other concern is that you can never fully rid the engine of flushing agents without removal of oil and filter. Not an easy job with the V8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 It's a damn sight easier with a remote filter fitted to the inside of the wing. To prime the oil pump - undo hose, pour a glug or two of oil down the end, re-attatch hose. Don't even need to get under the truck B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Its a nerve racking time though sitting in the wagon after an oil change, winding the starter and staring at the oil light waiting for it to go out.... Praying its still primed and not on the vinegar strokes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall_CSK Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Do it with the spark plugs out till it primes. As long as you have liberally lubricated everything during the build there is unlikely to be any adverse effect, there is very little load on anything, highest is on the cam followers, it's a good idea to give it a spin with the rocker covers off first and pour oil directly over them. It is good practice to overfill the sump to allow for filling all the galleries up when it does start, you can always take some out if it's too much. This also ensures that the bottom ends are wallowing in it and there is enough splash effect for the top ends and bores. You can then check the oil level again before actually firing it up. There is always the temptation to sit down smugly patting yourself on the back and listening to the lovely burble for 10 mins before checking the oil level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatboy Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 Niall, On the few engines I have totally rebuilt, I have rigged a light up off the pressure switch and spun the oil pump using a crimped piece of pipe until light extinguishes. At that point, I've then been confident that there is oil all the way round and the pump is primed. Some folk suggest driving the pipe with a drill but 1) it is nice to be able to feel it get stiffer as the oil gets round and 2) it gets significantly more difficult when oil is all round... I have a fear of breaking something if it was drill powered... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisha Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 i just repack the pump with vase and its done the job everytime. the drill thing has never worked for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted August 15, 2005 Share Posted August 15, 2005 i just repack the pump with vase and its done the job everytime.the drill thing has never worked for me. Having used both methods, think I'd always go with the vasaline option, because ( a ) it's quicker, and ( B ) I like the look you get from the checkout operators at Tesco's when you buy 3 big tubs of it!! I had an old knackered dizzy that I modified to fit into a standard drill chuck, popped the dizzy in the hole and wound away using a varialble speed drill. Dizzy had a bar welded in where the rotor arm would normally go, this attaches to drill, and the cam drive gear on the base of the dizzy shaft had to be ground off completely, otherwise you end up tring to turn the whole engine over with a drill... D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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