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London Emission Zone


tweetyduck

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Well I never got to sheet 5 for the land rover anyway as on sheet1 it says "mainly built for off-road" so I am exempt full stop!

I'd love to see you argue that with TFL after you get a fine throught the post... assuming you use the vehicle inside the zone of course.

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Gazelle, can you point me in the direction of that ground for representation please. I can't seem to find it.

Thanks

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/17703.aspx#tkt-tab-panel-2

Check this out. Thats all recovery and bus companies either choosing not to operate in the LEZ or going bust. Fire engines are charged £200 a day (what the f**k). Snow ploughs, Gritters, Refuse collection vehicles, Road sweepers £200 a day, so thats basicly a redirection of more tax money into the bankers pockets. Concrete mixers £200 a day, building companies gone then. Removals lorries £200 a day, to stop you escaping. And so forth.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/lez/17701.aspx#tkt-tab-panel-6

This can only hurt us. Just like everything our government do. I wish the banks had just collapsed.

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DON'T BE TEMPTED TO REGISTER YOUR 12 SEATER AS A MINIBUS TO AVOID THE CONGESTION BECAUSE THIS IS WAY WORSE

I have just stumbled on this thread as a result of a sleepless night (too much spicy food) and now don't think I will ever sleep.

I had to get rid of a fantastic VW van I had driven for ten years, sailed through its MOT every year and really low emissions but got banjaxed by TFL and overnight the van went from being worth £2000 to nothing. I couldn't understand why my 1.8 Diesel van was more polluting than a 1.8L Diesel car. It seems like madness that Diesel cars are exempt, I feel like buying an old diesel montego just so I can drive up and down past the mayor's office

I live just a mile from the zone and could not avoid driving past the cameras so I ended up virtually giving the van away to a mate in North Wales as it was worthless in London or he home counties. That was when I bought my landie, thirty years of not being able to justify buying the car of my dreams and suddenly, two years after finally getting my Land Rover, I am back where I started.

There must be something that can be done, Taxis can be up to twenty years old and are exempt and I have sat behind plenty that belch smoke, £100 a day every day, boy I am upset about this. Perhaps the Lorry boys can join this with a fuel protest day of action?

I have read the other posts and looked at the TFL LEZ flowcharts, my 1990 2.5TD CSW is listed as estate on the V5 so at the moment shows as exempt but I suddenly got paranoid when I put my VRM in the checker in case it came out not exempt and immediately worthless. I thought that by keeping our cars on the road we would be doing a good thing and not using resources to manufacture more cars, why have the MOT emissions standard anyway?

Realise I have started ranting, not enough sleep and too much anger at London's Mayor, I suppose they have got to pay for the Olympics somehow.

Anyway, long and short, if you have Estate on the V5 you are exempt (for now) because technically it becomes a car, best advice is to update with DVLA if your V5 says Light Utility and get it altered to Estate. You can also take photos of the seating in the back (to show 5-8 seats) and appeal to TFL to have your status changed but that might be a lengthy process and TFL probably won't give a grace period whilst its being decided. Basically, you have to have windows and seats so it becomes a car and not a commercial goods vehicle. And as for the mainly off road bit, that definitely is aimed at machinery travelling now and again and not nifty nineties with winches

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So from my previous post, where it looked like i was exempt.

Well, i've just been on to the website and put my VRM. Turns out my 90 is non-complaint in 2012...oh well, good thing i don't want to drive into london and that i'll just use the scooby if i have to go to heathrow!!!

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So from my previous post, where it looked like i was exempt.

Well, i've just been on to the website and put my VRM. Turns out my 90 is non-complaint in 2012...oh well, good thing i don't want to drive into london and that i'll just use the scooby if i have to go to heathrow!!!

Thats the silly thing though - it affects normal people getting to the airport and doing other normal things on the outskirts of London. Imagine you are out in your defender one day on the M25 and think oh, i know, i'll pop and see so and so who lives inside the M25....oh no, forgot, i cant i'm in the evil polluter!! Stupid scheme! If it were limited to an inner seciton of London a little larger than the congestion zone, that would be more understandable. Its the sheer size of the area that makes it so bad!

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  • 2 weeks later...

'DON'T BE TEMPTED TO REGISTER YOUR 12 SEATER AS A MINIBUS TO AVOID THE CONGESTION BECAUSE THIS IS WAY WORSE'

Congestion charge and LEZ are separate things. PSV (minibus) is exempt from CC but hit by LEZ.

Even worse example; two identical sprinter buses, same body and engine, one 16 seat, one down-rated to 8 seats: 16 seat is effectively scrap in Jan. 8 seat is fine as its treated as a car!

My house is 100m inside the LEZ. Planes over it all day dumping diesel emissions from a not great height <_<

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So from my previous post, where it looked like i was exempt.

Well, i've just been on to the website and put my VRM. Turns out my 90 is non-complaint in 2012...oh well, good thing i don't want to drive into london and that i'll just use the scooby if i have to go to heathrow!!!

From the tfl website today:

As a result of this decision TfL are updating our vehicle database. Whilst this work is in progress the compliance checker may not in all cases accurately return the vehicle compliance status. You can check your vehicle status using the compliance flowchart whilst this work is being completed.

Please note: In some instances the compliance checker may not currently provide the correct compliance status of your vehicle. You can check your vehicle status using the compliance flowchart.

Don't trust the compinance checker - especially for defenders!

Martin

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Don't trust the compinance checker

After posting this I went to the tfl site to find the flowchart with the page for Defenders. It appears to have been removed!

So I called them. When the operator found out it was a defender she told me that she did not know if it complied or not - no decision has apparently been made.

We wait and see... The plot thickens

Martin

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Well, I think I may have cheered myself up about this. I had gone off the idea of my Defender project as 100 quid a day is just plain daft. I had this stupid idea that buying a diesel would show some level of maturity, but, forget it, I'll get myself a V8 petrol instead. I'm happier tinkering with petrol engines anyway.

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  • 3 months later...

Just had an interesting email from TFL asking for photos of my Defender as part of the "validation" process they are undertaking.

We'd like to inform you that we require colour photographs showing all

four sides of the vehicle and a clear photograph of the VIN plate

showing the vehicle weights to assist us with our investigation

There may be hope yet (for CSW owners at least)!

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....

There may be hope yet (for CSW owners at least)!

I thought true CSW owners were ok anyway and it was those that had converted to an SW that had a problem (as well of course anyone with a commercial).

What did your body type on the V5 say?

I'm getting confused more and more :S

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I thought true CSW owners were ok anyway and it was those that had converted to an SW that had a problem (as well of course anyone with a commercial).

What did your body type on the V5 say?

I'm getting confused more and more :S

it is down as a diesel car, but also as light 4x4 utility rather than estate.

Whey are making such a mess of is separating the landrovers made primarily for the carriage of passengers (ie CSW) from those made primarily to carry cargo (ie commercial).

Hence why I think they wanted pictures from four sides of my Defender. You can see the windows and seats and as such they should (hopefully be happier about it as a "car".

Fingers crossed this time.

Martin

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it is down as a diesel car, but also as light 4x4 utility rather than estate.

Whey are making such a mess of is separating the landrovers made primarily for the carriage of passengers (ie CSW) from those made primarily to carry cargo (ie commercial).

Hence why I think they wanted pictures from four sides of my Defender. You can see the windows and seats and as such they should (hopefully be happier about it as a "car".

Why should it matter? what's the difference between your CSW and my hardtop?

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Well as far as the LEZ authority are concerned a CSW Land Rover is a car, and cars are exempt. A non-CSW Land Rover is a commercial vehicle, and as such is liable.

I know, my point is what is the difference between the two vehicles? the regulations are aimed at reducing emissions yet two vehicles that produce exactly the same level of emissions are treated differently.

As I have said before, my hardtop is not used for commercial purposes. It is my day-to-day car. It just happens to not have windows in the back and no comfy carpeting and 'insulation'.

I disapprove of the lack of sensible consideration when setting the standard as to what is acceptable and what is not.

EDIT: it was a rhetorical question rather than an enquiry. :)

Edited by JJB Serenity
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It makes no sense you're right, but it's based on the tax class system and that is based on a commercial/non-commercial basis. The difference is the 'intended use' at manufacture, not what it is actually used for today. My 110 has a specific letter in a specific place in the VIN number that makes it a station wagon and therefore exempt, but my 90 does not and that makes it non-exempt. I may as well be driving a Transit van for all the difference it would make in that respect :(

What's also crazy is that petrol vehicles are exempt, so I can take my 88" into London doing 12mpg on petrol, but not my 90 doing 31mpg on diesel.

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It is the same as if you were using a van for private transport, as the van is a considered a commercial vehicle it come under the LEZ regardless of whether it is used as a commercial vehicle or not.

It is never a good idea to confuse common sense and legislation !!:P

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oh I know, it's just a very frustrating subject for me as the LEZ starts about 1/2 a mile down my road (I live just within the M25 but in a very rural area).

as I say, it's not so much the concept of the LEZ that annoys me but the 'one size fits all' approach that demonstrates a lack of careful planning and consideration.

The good news is that I would have to pay the LEZ charge if I needed to drive to Romford. So, one more good reason not to drive to Romford then :lol:

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