Cartman Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 On the way into work this morning I had covered the first 15 miles of the journey and noticed the the engine response seemed a bit sluggish (more than usual ). Turned off the radio and it felt like it wasn't running on all cylinders. Stopped 10 miles later and even at tickover it was definitely lumpy but no engine management lights were coming on even after switching the ignition off and restarting - but what I did notice was the fuel pump was whining as it primed the system. It never did that before. Any suggestions. Just booked it into my local place for the morning. PS - What miffed me is we are a two (3 including the Series 2 in bits) car household and the '56 plate Focus Tdci is back with Ford due to engine management 'issues' so losing this to will be a right PITA Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Just dived out to the 90 after doing a general surf which pointed to the olde injector wiring harness getting oily (the rocker was weeping a bit when I bought the LR but had that changed as part of the PDI). Unplugged both the red ECU end of the harness and the round multipin that goes under the front corner of the head/rocker. Both as dry/clean as can be....so not that? Fuel pump still noisey though (half tank dieso in there). Fuel filter changed 5k ago. 30k on the clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K88 MUD Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 My guess would be injector seal has gone with the pump been noisy or the pump is on its way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 My guess would be injector seal has gone with the pump been noisy or the pump is on its way out. The noisey pump would point to it being iffy but if it was fuel starvation I would have thought tickover would be fine but it would miss under load due to lack of fuel? Is the injector seal an internal part of the injector - I guess so? The question if it is the above why would the pump go noisey with a failed injector. Or is it just co-incidence they both decided to totter off this mortal coil together? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K88 MUD Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 If the pump was on its way out then it SHOULD run ok at idle but not rev fully.....the injector seals are fitted in the cylinder head at the base of the injector to seal the fuel system from the combustion chamber.....if the seal has gone then you get cylinder pressure in the fuel system and air which will make the fuel pump noisy. Hardest part is working out which injector it is Diagnostics may help if you have a problem with the electronics side of the unit but you might also want to get a pressure test of the fuel system done at the FPR (fuel pressure regulator) with clear pipe fitted to see if you have air in the system before pulling the injectors out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 If the pump was on its way out then it SHOULD run ok at idle but not rev fully.....the injector seals are fitted in the cylinder head at the base of the injector to seal the fuel system from the combustion chamber.....if the seal has gone then you get cylinder pressure in the fuel system and air which will make the fuel pump noisy.Hardest part is working out which injector it is. Air in the system. Not thought of that one and that would make it lumpy across the rev range sounds like a firm possibility? At least seals are cheap but the labour might knock that? The local car place who have an ex-LR mechanic or two and do a ton of Disco's/Def's etc. are having it in tomorrow. They have the diagnostic systems so let's see how they do. I will post the results and the depleting bank balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I doubt it will show up any fault codes unless the afm has gone down Itll proberly have injector open circuits logged or current but that doesnt exactly mean theres a problem with the injector Unless when the engine running the cylinder balances are all over the shop Fuel filter heads are well known for being porous and leaking Has the pressure regulator sprung a leak ? If your pumps gone noisy then its poss air in the system Or it could also be the pump Best thing to do is pressure test the fuel system and see what the pump is kicking out if you cant see anything obviously wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Do things in order of ease and price New fuel filter (bugger to prime but not impossible), then injector O Rings (need a low torque wrench) then pressure regulator if pressure is low (I have a pressure tester if needed) and then fuel pump - genuine not pattern. Def sounds like air / fuel as pump is quite normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanuki Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Copper seals on inkectors need replacing. Just had to have this done on my TD5, after 90,000 miles. And a new furl-pump too. First, the fuel-pump becomes progressively more and more noisy at startup because it has to prime/pressurize the system: then the engine becomes reluctant to start/lethargic under load. As the seals leak more and more combustion gases into the fuel system, the pump becomes progressively noisier [to the point where it makes a noise like a cat in a blender that you can hear from 30 feet away] and the engine will either not start, or start after a lot of priming and then likely cut out at random. Leave it too long like this and the strain *will* kill the fuel-pump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well the local guy has just come back to say they cannot get comms with the ECU and the 90 started up fine this morning. No pump noise or anything? I have asked them to use it for running around locally today to see if it occurs again :stars Weather and time to get this fixed is my enemy at the moment. I work 30 miles from where LR is soddafabeetch. Other car is also off the road as well. Just spoke with R&E Land Rovers in Salisbury who will take it in for diagnostics (will not touch Otton's at their prices) but needs to be in for 1730 at the latest. I think I will wing it and see if I can do it tonite if I can grab a neighbour to run me back. SWMBO is not keen on coming back from town on my Triumph Cheers for the note Tanuki. LR only has 30k on it so I hope it's nothing major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Just collected the 90. Started fine and drove the 3 miles back without any issues? Weird - I would have thought with air in the system it would either stay there or get worse? Do things in order of ease and price New fuel filter (bugger to prime but not impossible), then injector O Rings (need a low torque wrench) then pressure regulator if pressure is low (I have a pressure tester if needed) and then fuel pump - genuine not pattern. Def sounds like air / fuel as pump is quite normally. Si, I will take your advice and first I will drop into Brookies or Ottons and pic up a replacement fuel filter (guess it is different to a 200tdi one?). Will change that out on Saturday/Sunday. Will fill with diesel before fitting so hopefully that should limit any problems. Injector O-rings and copper seals. How difficult are they to fit. Guess rocker off to get access then.........? Hopefully the Focus will be fixed and ready for collection Sat AM so if the LR holds it's own then it can get us there so SWMBO can drive the Ford back at least. For now it is short journeys only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reads90 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Paul Have you thought it could be dirty / crappy diesel Just a thought if that could be what's wrong with both your diesel cars. As dirty fuel may cause problems for the engine management on the focus too Just a thought Ali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Paul Have you thought it could be dirty / crappy diesel Just a thought if that could be what's wrong with both your diesel cars. As dirty fuel may cause problems for the engine management on the focus too Just a thought Ali Focus is one of those quality Ford electronic/ECU issues but I did fill up the LR with £50 (about a litre these days) at Sainsbury's in B'Stoke Sunday afternoon. Just hit the fuel low light when I did that. Only did around 40 miles between then and Tue when it played up. Lou is sticking another £20 in this morning on here local route to work and donkey feeding. Taking tomorrow off anyway so I will swap out the fuel filter. I took a look at the filter last night which has a nice coating of dry Salisbury Plain mud and there were no signs of weepage=air ingress? Biked it to work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartman Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 Now done around 60 miles since 'the problem' without any re-occurrence? So ordered an express delivery from p'docks yesterday and it arrived at 12 today. New FIAMM/Coopers fuel filter fitted and purge sequence run through. Old one was meant to have been changed 4k ago as part of the agreed PDI/service. It was pretty manky externally (also a Coopers) but that is probably my little outings onto the Plain. Fuel drained out contained no rats or pigeons etc. so nothing obvious there. Anyhoo new filter on and fired up fine and took it for a quick 10 miles trip without issue. Seems smoother but that is probably me I can cross that item off the list anyway if the missing/rough running occurs again at least. Also filled the tank up to the brim. Ali, Just had a message back from the Ford dealer that the owner of the dealership was driving our car about for a few days after his mechs claimed they had 'fixed it'. It broke down with the same electronic fault and he had to be recovered. Donkeys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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