HI i'm new here

[matrix1688]

Hi all, had a 1973 series 3 SWB for years and loved her, 2.6 streaight 6, internal roll cage, 235 85 16 reslips, great fun but i now have a girl friend with a daugther so needed a bigger landy, so i have sold my 88 and bought a 84 series 3 109, she is in great condition mechanically, sound chassis but she looks a bit tatty as the paint is rough, i have alot to do still but i can fit my new family in it ...lol

[Snagger]

A weekend spend rubbing down and roller-painting with plain NATO green would have it looking smart again. The safari roof is a nice mod, especially if you pint it green too - the matt green would normally make the inside quite hot in the summer, but the double skin of the safari roof will limit the sun's effect and the four small vents can be left open to have full ventilation without any threat of water ingress or theft.

More urgently, though, I'd recommend fitting matching tyres, ideally all around, but at least matching on each axle, so that you get even braking on wet surfaces. Just swapping the spare onto the front left corner would be a good start, and fitting the front left to the rear left would at least make sure both rear tyres are comparable, if not matched.

Good luck with the LR and, more importantly, the family.

[David Sparkes]

And if you don't need it, removing that roof rack will significantly help the fuel consumption, even at the normal Series rate of consumption.

Good Luck.

[Snagger]

And if you don't need it, removing that roof rack will significantly help the fuel consumption, even at the normal Series rate of consumption.

Good Luck.

Removing it will also drastically reduce body roll on corners and add 15mph to your top speed (eventually ). I keep mine fitted, though - every time I have removed it, I soon needed it .

[matrix1688]

Removing it will also drastically reduce body roll on corners and add 15mph to your top speed (eventually ). I keep mine fitted, though - every time I have removed it, I soon needed it .

Thank's for the advice, yeah the tyres are a must do but i didn't know how much the roof rack affected fuel consumption and handling...many thanks.

i have also removed the battering ram from the front bumper

[Snagger]

Roof racks are hard to store - they just take up too much space, and laying them on the ground outdoors makes them rust away quickly, even galvanised ones, unless you can store it under some shelter suspended off the ground. Otherwise, it's a judgement call on whether or not it'll be useful enough to justify its fuel, speed and handling penalty. I find it is worth it, but it's very subjective. You should be able to get £200 or more for it if it's undamaged.

Good decision on removing the front hitch - you already have the MoD front JATE rings atop the bumper, which are good recovery points (especially if you use a bridle to spread the load between both rings), so unless you expect to be shunting a Sankey trailer around a yard very frequently, it's a useless bumper ornament and is potentially risky to pedestrians and kids with poor road sense, and would certainly increase the amount of damage and liability if you had a shunt with another vehicle (enough to make the difference between the cost of a rear bumper and a write-off). If you have a good NATO hitch on the rear already, then the going rate for them is between £30 and £50, depending on condition, last time I looked. If you don't have one on the rear, refit it there - they're fantastically strong and you won't find a better trailer for a Land Rover than a Sankey. They also make perfect rear recovery points as strops or looped ropes cant slip off them.

I have a blog about my 109 (nickslandrover.co.uk), detailing its rebuild and its long (ever-growing) list of modifications, most of which are relatively simple and many of which are quite cheap - you're very welcome to have a poke around and see what might suit your vehicle and your needs. Some of the cheaper, simpler repair/rectification jobs that I found make a big difference are overhauling the steering and braking systems, making sure the springs and dampers are serviceable and fitting new wiper blades and door seals. A good cooling system flush with the high quality additives works wonders not just for removing scale and rust from the rad, block and pump for better cooling, but also from the heater matrix for better cabin heating (generally poor, so every bit you can get is worthwhile). Adjusting door fit and replacing door seals (Defenders' better seals work with a bit of work) pays dividends in reducing draughts. An 820C thermostat to replace the MoD 74oC thermostat will make a considerable difference to the cabin temperature in winter and will also marginally improve performance, fuel economy and engine longevity.

As mods go, it's not always the big, expensive ones that make the largest differences to safety or driving enjoyment. Some that I'd recommend as the budget and time permits are: inertia reel seat belts (defender type fit perfectly once you add the outrigger to tub brackets); Smartscreen intermittent windscreen wipe system (very simple to fit); decent all-terrain tyres (muds are too slippery, noisy and performance sapping on road). A little less effective and more costly are an overdrive, some noise proofing and sound deadening (Wright off road kit in the cab and Noise Killer matting in the rear is costly but makes a huge difference), SilBlade windscreen wiper blades (you'll have to modify Bosch 11" blade frames to take the shortened SilBlade inserts as they aren't made in the 10 or 11" sizes that will fit a SIII), Defender front seats (with Exmoor Trim heating pad kit - mmmmm!) and a Halogen headlight conversion (make sure you fit relays or the switches melt - expensively).

[FridgeFreezer]

Is it just me that thinks it's too damn cool to paint over? And why remove the front bumper / bumperettes?

[Snagger]

Is it just me that thinks it's too damn cool to paint over? And why remove the front bumper / bumperettes?

Not the bumper or bumperettes - the NATO hitch on the bumper!

As for the paint, I wouldn't be too worried about it in that condition as it's still reasonably tidy, but tatty vehicles can upset the neighbours, even if they're to kind to say anything, which is why I painted my scruffy Sankey before it was rolled out of the garage to be left on the drive to allow me more working space and somewhere dry and secure for the Lightweight. Sheds like Niel Whatever-his-name-is in LRO are anti-social, not because of what they are but because of the visual effect on the neighbourhood. Not a problem if the vehicle is parked out of sight, but we should all be considerate to our neighbours. This 109 is nowhere near untidy enough for that to be an issue, but eventually, like all vehicles, it will be unless a repaint is done, and that's always easiest if you still have a reasonable base to paint onto, rather than rough, flaking paint and corrosion. It's also better for the vehicle. Sorry in advance if anyone finds that an offensive comment - it's not meant to be - but some people can be a bit selfish about these things, such as the woman across the road from me who has an old Nissan that hasn't moved in ten years (and hasn't been insured or MoT'd in that time, so is clearly scrap) and is filled to the roof (literally, plus its roof box) with old new papers, kids clothing, incomplete board games, broken furniture and so on, because she's a hoarder - it's like a permanently full skip blighting the road.

[matrix1688]

Wow awsome info, we...me and the mrs have chatted and can't justify keeping the roof rack it is i belive a brownchurch and £150 to £200 would pay for more bits, so i am going to sell it, i can't put it on here yet so it will have to be ebay i guess.

Needs...steeing damper, tyres, rear shocks, 820C thermostat, rad flush stuff.

Needs done so far...new track rod ends, steering box adjusted, new points n plugs, done the timeing, got a starting handel of ebay to do it.

Paint... i got this 109 of a retired gardiner, he bought her in 1999 from a milatry dealer, she is an 1984 109 so all she has done in his care is go from job to job in his home town but he had his signs on the sides and were they were it looks rough what with all the hols and silicon left behind, this is the main reason why i would like to paint her, i have filled the holes...rivets and penny washers, she is an ex royal engineers radio 109 FFR so yeah it's 24v so i might not be able to do the intermitent wiper do da for a bit, i have no imediate plans to convert her to 12v.

I bought her for many reasons first she was advertised for £900 and i knocked him down to £700 yeah i stole it...lol she has 12 monthe mot, the brownchurch roof rack, no one has done any weared wireing mods and she has a westair penthouse lamp fitted all working, nice all i can find wrong is mostly cosmetic and neglect.

I will take some more pic's tomorrow so you can see stuff.

[matrix1688]

PS...the back has a drop ball hitch there is room for the nato hitch but can you have both?

[FridgeFreezer]

I'm not sure you're going to get £100-200 for a 2nd hand roof rack, no matter how nice it is. Last time I looked Paddocks et al were punting out roof racks for ~£150 brand new.

You may be able to bolt the NATO parking sensor onto the back, depends what the drop plate is doing really - post more pictures!

[David Sparkes]

PS...the back has a drop ball hitch there is room for the nato hitch but can you have both?

I'd say yes, but ...

If you mount both at the correct height for their respective trailers it can be difficult to impossible to get a 500mm hitch on the ball, because as it goes over the ball it hits the NATO hitch.

If your NATO hitch swivels, then turning it through 90 degrees gives a bit more clearance. If your 50mm hitch is one of the nasty pressed steel variety, rather than the cast version commonly found on braked trailers, then you might be able to fit and use both.

If your NATO hitch doesn't swivel the best answer appears to be bolt it to something firm, your front bumper may be suitable, insert a 3 or 4 foot steel tube in the jaw of the hitch, release the lock, and lean on the tube. After you have freed it up you can worry about breaking through the paint to clean and lubricate it properly.

HTH

[matrix1688]

Two pic's the first one is of the drivers side were the last owner had his signs, you can see it's a bit of a mess and you can see the origonal camo a bit, the passenger side is the same.

Drop ball hitch the 4 x bolts are the right pitch for the nato hitch, yeah it is a swivel one and very solid so will need freeing up, at the momment i don't have a trailer so no rush to sort this out.

[Snagger]

A quick thought about fitting the NATO hitch to the rear:

You have already identified the problem of it blocking a tow ball (I didn't realise you had one fitted). Your drop plate should allow it to clear when rotated, though. The other problem, which also does not currently affect you, is that it would be in the way of a rear door mounted spare tyre - that's why the Defenders' rear spare was moved up and off-centre. If you did chose to fit a spare on the rear door, you'd probably be best to fit a Defender rear door, as because as well as accommodating the tow hitches and having an anti-burst lock, most would also give you a heated rear screen and wiper (you would need to speak to an electrician to find out about how to wire these 12V systems into your 24V system, but I'd expect it to be a simple job with some kind of ballast resistor).

The roof rack should fetch a fair bit if it's in good order and marked as Brownchurch - they're a high quality brand, unlike the plastic covered tat that Paddocks and the like sell I bought a second hand Brownchurch HD rack (it had six doubled legs on each side, the front and rear struts to the hinges/body capping and the ladder) for £200 and consider that an excellent deal. Steel racks are out of vogue at the moment after the advent of the aluminium Patriot/Hannibal types, but they're tougher and cheaper than aluminium racks and don't look daft on a SII or SIII like their modern counterparts do.

[David Sparkes]

I now think my earlier response about mixing the hitches was wrong.

I was thinking of a standard LR Series drop plate, whereas you have a Dixon-Bate style mounting, and (of course) it's on a military crossmember.

To have both hitches available you buy a second mounting plate, like the one the 50mm ball is on, fit the NATO hitch to the new plate, then you just swap the plates as required. You can buy those plates, plus the securing pins and R clips, from Paddocks. They are Britpart, but they do have all the right sized holes in the right places :-)

The single pin plates, like you have now, tend to rock on the single pin, making an irritating noise when towing. I recommend the double pin variety as they are less irritating in use.

Your current set up is probably well rusted in place, but if someone is determined enough they can walk off with the plate and ball. If you aren't using it I'd remove it. Look for some way of 'mounting' the plates+hitches in the back. You don't want lumps like that flying through the air if you use the vehicle in front as your crush zone.

Have a closer look at the voltage your vehicle is using for lighting. That trailer socket is standard for a normal 12volt car. You can push 24 volts through it, but that would mean the trailer having 24 volt bulbs. I appreciate you don't have a trailer, but what did the bloke who fitted to socket use?

Have Fun.

[FridgeFreezer]

For info, a ballast resistor is not the way to make 12v stuff work on 24v as it's then entirely dependent on current draw for the voltage drop. In short, unless you already know why it's a bad idea, don't do it

[matrix1688]

I now think my earlier response about mixing the hitches was wrong.

I was thinking of a standard LR Series drop plate, whereas you have a Dixon-Bate style mounting, and (of course) it's on a military crossmember.

To have both hitches available you buy a second mounting plate, like the one the 50mm ball is on, fit the NATO hitch to the new plate, then you just swap the plates as required. You can buy those plates, plus the securing pins and R clips, from Paddocks. They are Britpart, but they do have all the right sized holes in the right places :-)

The single pin plates, like you have now, tend to rock on the single pin, making an irritating noise when towing. I recommend the double pin variety as they are less irritating in use.

Your current set up is probably well rusted in place, but if someone is determined enough they can walk off with the plate and ball. If you aren't using it I'd remove it. Look for some way of 'mounting' the plates+hitches in the back. You don't want lumps like that flying through the air if you use the vehicle in front as your crush zone.

Have a closer look at the voltage your vehicle is using for lighting. That trailer socket is standard for a normal 12volt car. You can push 24 volts through it, but that would mean the trailer having 24 volt bulbs. I appreciate you don't have a trailer, but what did the bloke who fitted to socket use?

Have Fun.

thankyou, i will phone the seller and ask him what he used for his trailer.

Good call removing the ball, haddent thought of that.

[matrix1688]

For info, a ballast resistor is not the way to make 12v stuff work on 24v as it's then entirely dependent on current draw for the voltage drop. In short, unless you already know why it's a bad idea, don't do it

Thanks, i only intend to fit 24v stuff to save on problems, the heated rear window would be well handy so i will look into a 24v system for it, they must be out there for trucks and lorrys that are 24v ?

[FridgeFreezer]

I'd just buy a trailer board and extension cable and stick 24v bulbs in it, saves faffing with trailers then.

[Snagger]

For info, a ballast resistor is not the way to make 12v stuff work on 24v as it's then entirely dependent on current draw for the voltage drop. In short, unless you already know why it's a bad idea, don't do it

Fair enough - I just wanted to point out a few benefits of the later doors but also point out that their electrics couldn't simply be connected to the 24V system. Given how a ballast resistor is used for the early diesel heater plugs, I though a similar scheme could be used for this purpose, but my understanding of electrics is relatively simple.

[FridgeFreezer]

Fair enough - I just wanted to point out a few benefits of the later doors but also point out that their electrics couldn't simply be connected to the 24V system. Given how a ballast resistor is used for the early diesel heater plugs, I though a similar scheme could be used for this purpose, but my understanding of electrics is relatively simple.

No problem, you should probably SVA it if you retro-fit a rear wiper anyway

[matrix1688]

Ok i have bought this, 30A DC-DC 24V to 12V Car Truck Power Supply Converter

£10.00 from hong kong...may be dodgie...lol but when it arrives i will see.

[Feltham]

If its chinese the wiper will work up and down instead of left to right

Nice LWB btw and keep the paint as YOU want it (or what the other half will let you get away with)

[FridgeFreezer]

The converter should be OK for relatively "dumb" stuff - heated window, lights, that sort of thing but I'm not sure I'd trust it with a car stereo of any great monetary value / sensitivity.

[matrix1688]

The converter should be OK for relatively "dumb" stuff - heated window, lights, that sort of thing but I'm not sure I'd trust it with a car stereo of any great monetary value / sensitivity.

I will give it a go but i will put a low value fuse and see what happens?