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Bulkhead replacement + Hi!


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Hi,

Just like to say Hi! been reading the forum for a while now, but this is my first post.

I'm planning on very shortly buying a 1986 90 2.5na diesel, its got an pretty immaculate chassis and wonderfully smooth engine, reasonable gearbox + a very slight leak in the diesel pump (just the gasket on the non-engine side), a bit of wear in a steering + various bushes. Oh and pretty poor interior - but it's an offroad toy so thats what i was after:) Not to bad for a 20yr old vehicle (i'm paying 1700 for it, so pretty low for a 90 i reckon)

The only real problem is the bulkhead is fairly heavily holed to the side of each vent. I see that there is a patch available from the various retailers for this, but i'm not confinced it is fixable as it is rusted pretty much up to the vent. Is a hole in that area an MOT failure? (it does still have 6 months MOT so I assume not)

So, how hard is it to replace the bulkhead? I've not really worked on a post series vehicle before, but i've done quite a lot (not replacing a bulkhead though) on an old lightweight (lift engine, rebuild engine etc).

Is it likely to be fixable with a patch to get it through another year?

Do you need to lift the engine/gearbox? Or is it just remove windscreen+dash+doors, undo a few bolts and fitting is the reverse of removal? A relatively simple weekend job?

I see replacement bulkheads on ebay for about 250 including delivery, so i'd be looking at a pretty good vehicle for under £2200 if i do the couple of other minor things as well!

Sorry for the essay!

Graham

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if you have swapped bulkheads before then you will not have an issue.

the physical swap will take you are worst a weekend I would of said.. assuming your inside.

It is pretty much as you thought, unbolt windscreen, doors and floor all floor panels inside the front area. easier to ditch the gear stick levers etc etc aswell. I would also get new bolts for the lot and new seals in preparation (e.g. the windscreen seals -the foam layer it sits on and the rubber one that joins it too the roof)

Just make note of where all the wires go :D

I think the hardest bit is taking the wings off I thought- -right pain in the but.

enjoy.

forgot to mention.. . you should be able to pick one up cheaper than that... Adrian just bought a 200tdi for under £2500 . (L reg (94) ) see picsc of it in members motors - under "trayback - fun fun fun".

Hi,

Just like to say Hi! been reading the forum for a while now, but this is my first post.

I'm planning on very shortly buying a 1986 90 2.5na diesel, its got an pretty immaculate chassis and wonderfully smooth engine, reasonable gearbox + a very slight leak in the diesel pump (just the gasket on the non-engine side), a bit of wear in a steering + various bushes. Oh and pretty poor interior - but it's an offroad toy so thats what i was after:) Not to bad for a 20yr old vehicle (i'm paying 1700 for it, so pretty low for a 90 i reckon)

The only real problem is the bulkhead is fairly heavily holed to the side of each vent. I see that there is a patch available from the various retailers for this, but i'm not confinced it is fixable as it is rusted pretty much up to the vent. Is a hole in that area an MOT failure? (it does still have 6 months MOT so I assume not)

So, how hard is it to replace the bulkhead? I've not really worked on a post series vehicle before, but i've done quite a lot (not replacing a bulkhead though) on an old lightweight (lift engine, rebuild engine etc).

Is it likely to be fixable with a patch to get it through another year?

Do you need to lift the engine/gearbox? Or is it just remove windscreen+dash+doors, undo a few bolts and fitting is the reverse of removal? A relatively simple weekend job?

I see replacement bulkheads on ebay for about 250 including delivery, so i'd be looking at a pretty good vehicle for under £2200 if i do the couple of other minor things as well!

Sorry for the essay!

Graham

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Sounds fairly easy, I haven't done a bulkhead before, but i've done pretty much everything else.

Thanks for that!

if you have swapped bulkheads before then you will not have an issue.

the physical swap will take you are worst a weekend I would of said.. assuming your inside.

It is pretty much as you thought, unbolt windscreen, doors and floor all floor panels inside the front area. easier to ditch the gear stick levers etc etc aswell. I would also get new bolts for the lot and new seals in preparation (e.g. the windscreen seals -the foam layer it sits on and the rubber one that joins it too the roof)

Just make note of where all the wires go :D

I think the hardest bit is taking the wings off I thought- -right pain in the but.

enjoy.

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£1700 includes HPi Check and a hour and a half check over by a landrover specialist dealer (Brooklyn4x4). (produced a list of mainly minor things - such as a missing bump stop), so real cost was nearer 1550.

I've had a good look around and there doesn't seem to be much around for the under £2000 mark as far as I can see, apart from unfinished projects - I was after something with a MOT and that could be driven away. Maybe i've just looked in the wrong places (LRO, ebay, local ads, autotrader, local dealers). To late now though!

Edit: forgot to mention, being 24 with a couple of minor shunts to my name, anything bigger/more powerful than the 2.5nad adds lots per yr to the insurance premium

forgot to mention.. . you should be able to pick one up cheaper than that... Adrian just bought a 200tdi for under £2500 . (L reg (94) ) see picsc of it in members motors - under "trayback - fun fun fun".
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Sounds ok to me Graham and welcome to LR4x4.

Pigster, do the wings need to be fully removed' or just seperated from the bulkhead (by which time I guess you might as well remove them)?

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Thanks:) I'll post some picks of it once i've got it sitting in my drive early next week.

Put my mind as rest as well, thanks :)

Initially i'm going to grind down the rust with a drill to see how far it goes, then kurust it to stop it spreading anymore. Hopefully that will stave it off for a while at least. (at least until MOT in january anyway :)

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I changed the bulkhead on my 1987 motor in 2 days with a friend outside with some rain.

I did not need to take the wings off. I removed the eyebrows (or part of) which then gave a bit of access to the bolts that hold outer wing to the bulkhead. Various lengths of extension bars, ratchet and sockets got them all off.

I just chopped the wiring down either wing for the lights then reconnected them when new bulkhead in using spade connectors and plenty of insulation tape.

I also left roof on although it was then hard work to get the screen back in under the roof. If you undo the bolts for the roof to tub, you could then lever up a bit more to make job easier.

Other difficult bit was getting the bulkhead in with the 2 floor sills that run from bottom of seat box to the bottom corner of bulkhead. Especially difficult when trying not to scratch the nice new paintwork on the resprayed bulkhead.

Other interesting items to note were steering lock. Forgot about the security bolts used but a drill had it removed and some normal bolts were okay as replacements.

Trying to reconnect the sterring was a pain as we had bolted up the bulkhead. Might be worth reattaching when bulkhead can still tilt etc. We simply split at one of the UJ's.

I bought all new clips and nuts for bulkhead where wings attach and the door hinges. Not too expensive from main dealer actually. Bought new seals for the vents but they are cr@p as stick onto the vent itself then conveniently leave a gap between the bulkhead and the seal for all the water to come in! I luckily removed the old ones in 1 piece and stuck them back in.

Generally not too bad a job. Just be methodical and try to keep lots of tubs for screws etc as loads of them!

Good luck!

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Corrosion in that area will fail the MOT as it's part of the vehicle structure. It can be repaired however. It just depends on your abilities to do it. I've done a few badly corroded bulkheads, and if you do the job properly and then inject Waxoyl or similar inside, then the repair could possibly last many more years. Some pics of the worst one I ever did:-

I'd best point out that I didn't quite do all of this job - the paint all over everythign isn't down to me, and the really bad welding also isn't down to me either. This was an economy repair, and in normal circumstances it would look a lot better when finished.

A bit of silver tape is not really a good repair.

med_gallery_2_125_94386.jpg

Downhill from here.

med_gallery_2_125_64122.jpg

There has to some solid metal in there somewhere.

med_gallery_2_125_383.jpg

At least the washer jet still worked.

med_gallery_2_125_179449.jpg

A bit of a clean up with a wire brush in a drill or angle grinder will give you a good idea how bad the damage is and the amount of work needed to do an effective repair.

med_gallery_2_125_236801.jpg

The repair panel, plus some fabricating along the top edge of the vent.

gallery_2_125_15270.jpg

The angle here is important for the alignment of the seal.

Must be strong too as the windscreen frame hinge is here too.

med_gallery_2_125_162184.jpg

Looks a lot better after a coat of primer.

med_gallery_2_125_103291.jpg

The opposite side was rotten too. I still used a repair panel, but cut it back as the whole thing wasn't necessary.

med_gallery_2_125_102547.jpg

med_gallery_2_125_35865.jpg

med_gallery_2_125_218529.jpg

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med_gallery_2_125_145321.jpg

The two repair panels will set you back about £12 each, and a new/good second hand bulkhead quite a lot more. In the end - if you are going to have to pay someone else to do the job you are not going to save a great deal of money over replacing the whole thing.

Les. :)

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Thanks for all the advice, I think i'll probably give repairing a go - I can't weld, but a friend of mine is an engineer on cruise liners and is pretty good apparently. He's back in october so I'll get him to sort it out for me :)

I must say (externally at least) the corrosion doesn't appear to be as bad as that example, so it's given me hope of a repair!

I have put aside the money for a new bulkhead already though, just in case it turns out to be one big piece of rust! I don't think it will be though as the footwells are rust free.

When I pick up the vehicle (tomorrow if my insurance cover note arrives before the post office closes and so can get a tax disc) I'll post some pictures of the state of it.

Thanks again for the friendly welcome and advice!

Graham

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Done two bulkhead replacements now, first on my S111 and more recently on my 90, both were done with brand-new genuine bulkheads and it goes without saying that a new bulkhead properly rust-treated before fitting will be far better than a repaired one. For all the rust/rot you can see on a bulkhead, it will be a whole lot worse when you strip it doen and a poor repair will let you down in the end. New bulkheads are available for aound £200 and correctly treated they will last every bit of 20-years or so.

When your new bulkhead has been painted seal up all the holes and turn it upside down. Poor Waxoil down the door-pillars until it is full and leave to run through all the internal sections (do this on a hot day), after a few hours turn it upright again and allow the excess Waxoil to run outo. Hey presto, a bulkhead perfectly rust-proofed.

Fitting is a matter of how long you want to take, if you just remove the minimum and do it that way then you can do it in a weekend but the more you strip off the more you find to do at the same time (you will never have such good access to the top of the chassis etc). I did mine over the course of two weekends but I also did much more than change the bulkhead (I cleaned & Waxoiled the chassis for one). Try to use new fixings throughout, I used SS items and it has paid dividends in the long run as everything comes apart much easier when it is time to do something later on. The same goes for the vent & heater seals, if you try to use the old ones they will never work as well (the heater seals will probably fall apart anyway) and why try to save a few pounds when doing such a major job?

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I think i'm going to wld it up initially, then in a year or so strip the front and replace the bulkhead.

If i replaced the bulkhead I would only use brand new - as you say it's a major part of the vehicle.

Taken a good look (screwdriver + hammer) over the bulkhead and I reckon its repairable for now based on what i've seen & read, but I'm under no illusion i'll need to replace it at some time!

Thanks for all the advice guys. I may still go the new bulkhead route

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Given the amount of effort required to change it new is clearly the way to go. That said has anyone tried galving a new bulkhead? Short term mine is likely to just get patched though.

Also, what IS the difference between a 200 and 300TDi bulkhead. Be a shame to find I have to cut it if its been galv'd

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i did Dans bulkhead with him and was so inspired by how easy the job was i decided to repair my own bulkhead with the replacement panels (it was in similar condition to the one Les shows)

chickenwire.jpg

my conclusion was that it was much easier to change a bulkhead than muck around doing the repair panels, if i were going to do it again i would always opt to change the bulkhead complete.

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  • 3 months later...

Thanks guys, did the work over the last two days. Turned out to be pretty easy. Worst bit was getting the doors back on and aligned (the captive nuts had to be opened out for the extra bulkhead thickness)

I've done it hoping it will last for 2 - 4 years before replacing the whole bulkhead for new. Just got to waxoyl now.

Some photos...

Passenger side very rusty

1.jpg

Rust cut out and being cleaned up

2.jpg

Driver side not so bad

3.jpg

Internals all rust converted with Kurust

4.jpg

Repair panels cut to shape

5.jpg

Clamped in for welding...

6.jpg

Welding it in!

7.jpg

Passenger side partially welded, with extra metal fabrication beginning.

8.jpg

All primed and drill for windscreen hinge...

9.jpg

Thanks for all the information!

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I'm glad to get it out the way. I'd say definately easier than changing the whole bulkhead - only having to remove a few easy items (half of dash, windscreen, vents and bonnett) saves a lot of work.

There's still a few small holes left in inconspicuous/non-strength places (top of vent area) that i've rust converted and going to use to inject waxoyl, then seal up with sealant.

I would definately recommend welding up for a cheap and quick fix to last a year or three (assuming this lasts:) Assuming you can weld/have a good friend who can weld it for free of course :)

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