Bowie69 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 It's not a new cam, it has ~5000 miles on it! Of course if you have new of both you can swap to a different style of lifters without issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 It's not a new cam, it has ~5000 miles on it! Of course if you have new of both you can swap to a different style of lifters without issue. Sorry just re-read my old post, typo in there - it's 500 miles, not 5,000, and probably not even that as I haven't had much use of the landy since the cam went in last summer. Cheers, Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Sorry just re-read my old post, typo in there - it's 500 miles, not 5,000, and probably not even that as I haven't had much use of the landy since the cam went in last summer. Cheers, Andrew. Whether it be 500 or 5,000, it is still a new cam. Lifters bed into the cam, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 10 points to Need4Speed! Thanks to Phil for hassling me to get the other cylinder head off - I've found the problem and it's not pleasant... Removing the cylinder head was pretty much as bad as I'd remembered, although the exhaust manifold was only fairly annoying the alternator bracket also needed to come off, which needed the PAS pump moving to get to the bolts & that's an ar$e to do. Anyhow, got the head off. First look it's much like the even bank - coked-up and generally pretty manky: _DSC4782 by AC72, on Flickr A closer look down cylinder #3 is revealing: _DSC4783 by AC72, on Flickr Yup, that's a bit of metal sitting there and those are chunks missing from the piston The cylinder head is no better: _DSC4786 by AC72, on Flickr Complete with lump of metal embedded in the ally: _DSC4787 by AC72, on Flickr Cleaned-up the piston: _DSC4789 by AC72, on Flickr and the cylinder head: _DSC4788 by AC72, on Flickr Ugly! Or as the missus would say "Bruto!" The only good bit (apart from finding the problem) is that the cylinder bore seems to have miraculously survived without a scratch. It's not very easy to photograph but I had a good look with a bright light and can't see any scratches at all. P1000548 by AC72, on Flickr These are the two bits I salvaged, the bigger was laying in the bore, the smaller embedded in the cylinder head. They're steel (ferromagnetic) and have taken a bit of a pounding, but I have no idea what they could be. They're not piston ring and the valves and guides are all intact. I've got them sitting in-front of me on my desk, so hopefully if I stare at them long enough, I'll work it out... _DSC4791 by AC72, on Flickr So, the piston's toast, as is the cylinder head. Con-rod looks OK, big-ends are in the same state as the others - not too clever looking but intact. Both valves look fine, no sign of scratching and the stems are straight. It's irrelevant but the inlet and exhaust tracts are fine in the head, so whatever it was must have been quite small. I'll need to look at numbers and decide whether to go with a new piston and cylinder head or whether to take it as an opportunity to stick in a x-bolted, serpentine belted, crank-driven oil-pumped 4.6... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete The Biker Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Ouch! But great pics! Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 <£100 for gaskets, piston and replacement cylinder head, vs how much for a 4.6? Tough choice Looks exactly how my lightweight piston did.... just yours is worse First time it happened I took it all apart, found the problem, replaced piston, left the head well alone, and ran a bit of wet'n'dry down the bore before inserting the piston, bolted it all up and it'd been great Second time it happened (as I couldn't work out WTF the screw had come from in the first place) I pulled the head, tapped the screw out of the piston (still pretty screw shaped) and bolted it all back together, been like that for thousands of miles now Not suggesting you do this, but sometimes you can get away with more than you think... like maybe that cylinder head isn't scrap... a good skim and it may be alright, skim the other the same and you have a matched pair. Have you skimmed them before? If so did you allow for the extra thickness of the composite gaskets...? Just thinking of options Well done persevering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 As you have 14 bolt heads and block, you should be using a metal head gasket rather than a composite. To fit a composite you should shave the head 40 thou. This should get rid of a lot of your marking from the bolt/screw/nut and allow you to use composite gaskets in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 As you have 14 bolt heads and block, you should be using a metal head gasket rather than a composite. To fit a composite you should shave the head 40 thou. This should get rid of a lot of your marking from the bolt/screw/nut and allow you to use composite gaskets in the future. That was running through my mind. I wasn't sure if the engine originally had a metal gasket or composite, but I'd forgotten that the 14 holes are the giveaway. Sounds like going for a head skim might be the best option, especially as I'd already ordered a pair of new composite head gaskets from Real Steel earlier today. I'm tempted by the 4.6 route but realistically getting the heads done and a new piston in will be far quicker - and that's probably what matters most at the moment, seeing as we've been without a car for over a month now. Cheers, Andrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Wow! Had a feeling something would show itself in there. That being said, it looks as though it would polish out...... :lol: Glad you found it dude. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willfromsussex Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 nice one. told ya that wasn't valvetrain noise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Ouch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 I've been quiet, but that's because I've been busy! Got the heads back from being skimmed at Cambridge Rebores - £90 the pair, including a good deep clean. P1000555 by AC72, on Flickr I had 40thou taken off, partly to get rid of as much damage as possible and partly to make-up for using composite gaskets on a 14 bolt head (designed for tin). It's hard to see any signs of damage on the number 2 cylinder bowl, just a small mark near the inlet valve. P1000557 by AC72, on Flickr I also cleaned-up the piston with a Scotchbrite - it still looks like a bulldogs love toy but there are no lumps to make hot-spots now. I did look at getting a new piston, but Rover want £130 for one and Real Steel won't split a set of 8. (For some reason I don't seem to have a photo of the piston, sorry). Replaced all the big-end shells as well - that's a not much fun job from underneath the engine with oil dripping on you. At least it didn't rain. Got the engine put back together, swapped the Rhodes Lifters for a set of Real Steel normal lifters. We'll see how they (or the cam) lasts seeing as they didn't start life together. I had a good look at the old Rhodes lifters and there's no sign of wear on the face, so hopefully I'll get a bit of life from this setup. If not, it's only £50 on the Real Steel lifters against £160 for a set of OEM. Plenty of cam lube and a bottle of zincified slippy additive stuff in the oil - we'll see how it goes. P1000561 by AC72, on Flickr I had a slight moment when I was putting the heads back on and noticed that there was no engine number on the block - I'd had the block rebored a couple of years ago and the main bearings honed, but I didn't remember having it decked... Visions of valves kissing pistons Luckily I keep all my engine bits of paper and found that I had had it decked by 10thou when I got it rebored. A gentle turnover with a pair of solid lifters and there was no sign of valve contact. Did the sums and I think we're now looking at 9.57:1 compression ratio, so still acceptable, particularly as I'll be mainly running on LPG. Anyhow, rest of the bits went on without a problem, apart from a lot of swearing and hammering on the exhaust. Finally got the Y piece fitted properly with the help of a ratchet tie-down strap between it and the front axle and a 4lb lump hammer. Fired-up first time, with only the sweet burble of a contented V8 from the exhaust Next step, sort out the idle fuelling for low HC and off for a MoT... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p76rangie Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Looks good. Hope you did not leave any bits of metal in it this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 Looks good. Hope you did not leave any bits of metal in it this time. Indeed. Not that I'm into deflecting blame onto the helpless or anything like that, but I kept anything tempting out of reach of the probable culprit... P1000558 by AC72, on Flickr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Glad you got things sorted andrew. Id be gettin the little 'un off to the army in ten years for that!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 Glad you got things sorted andrew. Id be gettin the little 'un off to the army in ten years for that!!! Don't worry - he redeemed himself yesterday by attacking the neighbours AMG 55 ML with a ratchet yesterday* - Land Rover to the core! Andrew. * [Luckily he wasn't seen and I stopped him before he did any damage!! That would have been expensive...] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete The Biker Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 As before, great pics / thread. Fingers crossed that it all runs sweet as a nut from now on. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 Glad you got it sorted- always good to see some nice shiny v8 pics Good luck with the MOT- mine passed its test this morning- 1.01% CO and 123ppm HC - well pleased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 I stopped him before he did any damage.... Id have let him fill his boots... Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 Id have let him fill his boots... Phil Tempting! It might have a 5.5l V8 but apart from that it's an absolute horror, plastic bodykit everywhere. To be fair, the neighbour probably thinks the same of the 110 (apart from the plastic bit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted March 14, 2011 Author Share Posted March 14, 2011 Glad you got it sorted- always good to see some nice shiny v8 pics Good luck with the MOT- mine passed its test this morning- 1.01% CO and 123ppm HC - well pleased Cool. Ours is booked for Thursday morning - might have to take some time off work before then... Shiny V8 pics are nice - I have a close-up of the valve gear as my desktop now - better not tell the family, who were displaced by it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Cleland Posted March 17, 2011 Author Share Posted March 17, 2011 Last update from me - passed the MoT today (after some swift mid-test cleaning on the connectors for the horn) :-) Emissions were slightly over 1% on the CO and 100ppm HC at idle - not quite good enough to pass the cat test but fine for my pre-cat era engine. Off to get road tax tomorrow, then time to kiss goodbye to my healthy bank account after 6 weeks of cycling everywhere!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 When I took mine for the MOT I forgot I had the "Performance MSQ" in the ECU Tester said, sorry Nige thats a fail, I said "Whoaa Hang on" and loaded the "Economy MSQ " in (yes I have a sense of humour ) Few blips of the throttle and it cleared its throat and settled down "Seems the Cats have warmed up Nige" he said I replied "How do you know that, and Yes they are probably on the Boiler now, but what has that got to do with my emmisions test and the MOT ? " He laughed it passed, its amazing how close to CAT levels you can get with MS Tuned in right Now go test that soundtrack Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Tempting! It might have a 5.5l V8 but apart from that it's an absolute horror, plastic bodykit everywhere. To be fair, the neighbour probably thinks the same of the 110 (apart from the plastic bit) I pulled into a petrol station in the 109 the other day with it absolutely plastered, turf on the roof and everything - next to a pristine XC90 with two wide-eyed kids in the back was tempting to flick mud at it, sure the kids would have found it funny at least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Range Rover Blues Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 My LSE passes without cats on it too. Don't know what chip is in the ECU though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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