X-Deflex Anti Sway Bar - Pressure or Vac operated?

[Bluemoon]

To actuate it, a schrader valve could be used at a remote place, and activated with a foot pump or even a hand pump(fixed to the gearbox tunnel in the passenger well) at the cheapest end with or without a small air tank, or fill at the garage before going offroad, then upgrade to compressor at a later date, lets face it we all would like one .

Brian

[David Sparkes]

Erh.. What are you talking about exactly? do you think there's a little air compressor that pumps pressure into the ABS module?? Cars with ABS do NOT have an air compressor (unless it's for the suspension, but this has nothing to do with ABS) And a defender with ABS STILL has a vacuum operated brake servo. As do many other cars with ABS. So can't really see where you are going?

As now know this was aimed at me, I'll answer it.

You seem to have assumed that when I wrote about pressurised brake system I meant air pressurisation. I didn't, I meant hydraulic pressurisation.

No I don't think there is a little air compressor that pumps pressure into the ABS module, thus I understood that "Cars with ABS do NOT have an air compressor" (for the brakes).

SOME cars, I used the 38A as an example, and I asked about other "high end cars with ABS and Traction Control", use a hydraulically pressurised brake system.

While there may be many Land Rovers with ABS and vacuum assisted brake systems I didn't think that it could accurately be expected that most Land Rovers employed this system. So I asked the question, while recognising that the X-Deflex may not currently be aimed at such cars.

I hope that's clearer, and answers your question.

Moving on, didn't the Disco 2 have some method of changing the roll stiffness of the rear suspension, depending on the situation?

It might be interesting to read up the design parameters they set, regarding when it operated, and what happened when it failed.

Cheers.

[FridgeFreezer]

then upgrade to compressor at a later date, lets face it we all would like one.

No we wouldn't

Most people will likely carry some way of pumping their tyres up, but unless you have air-actuated lockers there's not a lot of reason to want a plumbed-in air system.

You could always go Gunsons Eazi-Bleed style and use the spare tyre as a big air reservoir, could be a bit tricky when some spares are on the bonnet and some are on the back door.

[PaulMc]

Moving on, didn't the Disco 2 have some method of changing the roll stiffness of the rear suspension, depending on the situation?

It might be interesting to read up the design parameters they set, regarding when it operated, and what happened when it failed.

Yes, it's called 'Active Cornering Enhancement' (ACE), and it works on both front and rear axles.

This description is from the Owner's Handbook

"Active Cornering Enhancement (ACE) is a patented feature unique to Land Rover.

The system is designed to eliminate vehicle body roll at low cornering speeds and reduce body roll at higher cornering speeds, while maintaining a soft, car-like, suspension for straight line travelling.

On uneven surfaces and rough tracks, the ACE system will adjust the suspension according to the vehicle speed and roughness of the surface to provide improved passenger comfort.

At very low speeds the roll bars are effectively decoupled giving significant benefits in off-road axle articulation and improved traction.

The system is entirely automatic in operation and cannot be influenced by the driver in any way"

If you have RAVE that covers the Discovery II, there's a document under 'Technical Brochure' called 'DISCOVERY SERIES II Suspension' that describes the components and operation of ACE.

.

[dirtydiesel]

I'd go with vacuum, nice and simple and as long as the engine is running there is a unlimited supply.

And as for the saftey aspect;

On my nissan patrol it has the brake servo, clutch servo and the rear difflock all running off the vacuum pump. nissan use a vacuum reservoir and a series of priority valves to make sure the other systems cannot starve the brake servo of vacuum.

[bishbosh]

I'd tell the lazy bu99ers to get off their fat ar$es and lock / unlock it manually.

(Voted pressure and locked for most of the reasons above)

[Soren Frimodt]

As now know this was aimed at me, I'll answer it.

You seem to have assumed that when I wrote about pressurised brake system I meant air pressurisation. I didn't, I meant hydraulic pressurisation.

No I don't think there is a little air compressor that pumps pressure into the ABS module, thus I understood that "Cars with ABS do NOT have an air compressor" (for the brakes).

SOME cars, I used the 38A as an example, and I asked about other "high end cars with ABS and Traction Control", use a hydraulically pressurised brake system.

While there may be many Land Rovers with ABS and vacuum assisted brake systems I didn't think that it could accurately be expected that most Land Rovers employed this system. So I asked the question, while recognising that the X-Deflex may not currently be aimed at such cars.

I hope that's clearer, and answers your question.

Moving on, didn't the Disco 2 have some method of changing the roll stiffness of the rear suspension, depending on the situation?

It might be interesting to read up the design parameters they set, regarding when it operated, and what happened when it failed.

Cheers.

Yes well, now that I have re-read it, it might have come out a bit strongly I suppose, no pun intended.

I just confused on how it would solve the air compressor issue, didn't see it as a question. Anyways I don't he makes the X-Deflex for other than the "classic" Chassised LR's does he?

[lrfarmer]

could it be operated with a cable

[simonr]

could it be operated with a cable

Actually, that's the most sensible suggestion so far!

Yes - very easily - using a choke cable - one of the ones where you pull and twist to lock.

I've been testing the vacuum operated version today - and quite like the ability to change the state from the cab. As Bish said, perhaps I would benefit as much as many from the exercise of getting out to change the thing though!

I tried testing to see if the brakes still work OK when there is a loss of vacuum containment (by disconnecting the pipe from the solenoid valve). You can feel a small difference - but barely. The bore of the brake vacuum pipe is 8mm whereas the pipe from the valve 4mm so you only lose 25% of the vacuum worst case.

So - what do you reckon to a cable option? It's a bit harder to plumb in but it is nice & simple!

Si

[lrfarmer]

i was tinking somthing like handbrake cable with a leaver in the cab, but if some thing as small as choke cable would be strong anuff,(it will get draged thro mud, crud and land rover handbrake cable seems to be take it allready

[Quagmire]

Cable is nice and simples! I voted already though

[Soren Frimodt]

That was quite a brilliant idea using a cable. And maybe you should use one of them teflon lined ones that are used for clutch and gearlever on a car. They seem to cope best with little/no maintenance.

[nicks90]

i would go with a cable, simple and effective and CHEAP.

although i do wonder how you will make the thing only lock in the level position so it doesnt initiate a lean.

Moving on, didn't the Disco 2 have some method of changing the roll stiffness of the rear suspension, depending on the situation?

It might be interesting to read up the design parameters they set, regarding when it operated, and what happened when it failed.

As said, ACE. great system! Really loved it on our disco.

however, when it fails you get a very rolly-polly car. One of our pipes split and spilt its guts over the road. It felt like driving a jelly for the few hundred yards it took to find a safe stopping place.

[simonr]

I used a cable for the first version of my TDS Winch freespool which is sold through another well known 4x4 Co. I sourced a nice quality lined industrial control cable which had a 'T' handle on one end. Pull and twist 90 deg to lock.

I have a mental drawing of it which consists of a spool inside a sealed circular casing which simply screws to the outside of the existing hub. The centre of the spool engages with the existing rotary operating switch. The spool incorporates a rotary spring strong enough to lock the hub and the cable, wrapped around the spool unwinds against the spring to unlock the hub.

The existing cap of the hub is attached by 6 x M4 screws. The spool arrangement could use 3 x long M4 screws to hold itself in place so in an emergency you just remove the three screws and it reverts to being a standard locking hub.

The cable entry would be a tangential hole sealed with an O ring and screw collar or similar (like a mini cable gland - in fact, you can probably buy cable glands small enough!) and the spool case would seal to the hub with an O ring making the whole assembly including the cable water and mud proof!

Si

[Disco-Ron]

The cable idea seems to be too easy somehow..LOL.... how come you didn;t think of that yourself Simon..??...

Getting back to the 'failsafe' position, i would buck the trend and say that if it were to fail, then it should fail unlocked, i understand that that would end up with very different road handling, however, imagine if you have the thing unlocked whilst doing some serious articulation, the system faisl when the axle is at full twist, you could easily end up with a vehicle on a very big lean, as once the spline lined up, it'd click in giving a leaning vehicle, unl;ess you changed the system for some purpose built shafts/hubs, however, the biggest bonus of the whole system in my mind is the use of standard parts,..!

I'm prepared to be prooved wrong, and i do understand the fact that road handling would be compromised, however, if it failed in the middle of the desert, or a rocky road for example, and clicked into 'engaged' mode..... it could easily leave you stuck with useless articulation!

[Retroanaconda]

I'd rather it fail at slow speed off-road, allowing me to get out and fix it, than at high speed on road going round a roundabout, where I might not get the chance to correct before ending up in the ditch!

[simonr]

I think the results are overwhelmingly in favour of being Air Pressure operated and failing locked. Had there been a cable option - I have a feeling that may have nosed ahead of pressure operated.

I think I'll make a prototype of each and make the cylinder to suit low pressure such as that from a spare tyre. A tyre should give hundreds of actuations as it only uses 4.7cc of air at 35psi per stroke.

At the moment we're making/prototyping a long awaited freespool for yet another type of winch - which will be sold exclusively through First Four, but after that......

Si