Dry Sump Pan Ideas

[Team Idris]

Time is the difference as we see it. If your on a tough punch you could be at 30+ degrees for 5 minutes. If the pick ups are at the very extremes of the sump, ones going to be getting nothing but air for that time. (hence my odd baffles)

You havn't seen a problem and thats fair, I'm not saying your wrong, and that common outlet 'Y' probably splashes oil back down into the dry pump section. But nobody will give any sort of garantee on that. Or, to quote pace "you can't run the scavenge pump dry for any length of time".

If you said; "I run a 3 stage scavenge pump from ------ and we regularly run it at very steep angles for 10 mins at a go, and a stripdown shows no extra wear" I'd be well happy to go with that. I'd risk my £500

But nobodys exactly saying that. Infact, everybodys saying the opposite?

With this other pump the question won't arise, as it'll never be running without lubricant

Equally, if it's continually primed it'll definately suck better when its pick up is submerged back in the oil and should give it a longer service life.

Plenty of time to discuss it yet though. I only got the pistons back in today

[Team Idris]

Dunsfold fixed me up with a 3 slot front pulley. No idea whats it is off, but the front one is about 140mm, so a little smaller than the alternator slot. So its not for 24volt I guess? Either way up, it was the right money, and its on Even the drive coupling still fits inside it, which is lucky, as the drive is off a train, so no particular reason it had to fit

Anyway, I write to say that I'm not welding the sump to the Team-Idris pump plate. We think the weld will twist the plate. So I'll cut the old sump to take the 16 gauge steel pressing. If I've got my Fab head on, it might line up with the trough

The pump position looks to be the old RRC power steering pump position, which is low on the left hand side. This means the shortest suction lines possible and that they will be away from the prop. The low position should mean the best 'head' for the main oil pump. It will get some mud though. Lets hope the front seal is good. The pulley is a 6" ally one with 12mm hole (cheap as chips) which I bored to 1/2".

Let fabrication comence

[Team Idris]

My original folded sump design isn't quite working. The front axel can come up a long way before it starts on the bump stops, so that classic dry sump 'trough' will have to be cut off at the front end. And the RPI studs stick out so much they are horribly close to stopping the sump going on . It's all a bit vexing

[Team Idris]

Okay, back on track. Might have some sump photo's for you soon Zim .

The RRC axel is far enough back, (or engine so far forward) that the axel tube cutout in the trough doesn't go right to the front. So the front scavenge point can be on the end of the trough. This is so close to the pump pack, that a solid pipe can be made up using off the shelf sweapt bend 90 hydraulic pipe fittings.

I had baffles in there acting as dams and structural bracing. The front one has gone and the rear one drilled through. The 5/8" fitting that was a few inches from the back of the sump will be capped and a new one has been welded in right at the back. When it nose up its all on the rear pump, and when its nose down its all on the front scavenge. The internal lubrication on the pump is all that that will keep it wet from now on.

Its now designed to work as a true dry sump, as in nose up or down, all the oil can be drawn off. Admittedly at 10 degree nose down, half a pint will build up behind the axel cut out.

Just a jockey pulley, a load of pipe work and a tank fab before it's ready to start them

[Team Idris]

[ajh]

I noticed Cosworth sell a dry sump system for the Ford 4s you might want to take a look at that, no idea what kind of volume they move but I'm sure they've dealt with all the major issues. I have plans on doing one for the TDV6 eventually so I can run 40L of oil, though rather than a tank I'm looking at using a high-pressure hydraulic radiator system mounted remotely with several settling/air separation tanks on the way to the rad and adding piston skirt sprayers as part of the pan. (this is for something a little more demanding than a challenge vehicle though )

[Team Idris]

I think Zim's gone off the idea It's gone awful quiet ?

[zim]

Not off the idea....i'm still reading this thread with interest, but working away doesn't help.

[Team Idris]

This winters job then....................

I've got me tank in; http://forum.difflock.com/viewtopic.php?t=47329&start=180 Which is the next question after the sumps been made. 200mm diameter, 400mm deep, with a mesh/screen 100mm up from the bottom and bolt on lid.

I'm hoping I dont need an oil cooler, the gearbox cooler fan being right next to it.

[Team Idris]

I got oil pressure up yesterday. I'm getting 55 psi with the relief valve backed right off on 20/50. But that is with a stationary engine, which isn't 'using' oil? I'm hoping the built in relief valve is able to give a 40+psi hot running pressure with out excessive cold starting pressure. I guess I'm only an aux relief away from a cure if it turns out bad. But this is more of a system problem than sump. Still better than fighting to bleed a rover pump!

But I logged on to write about leak past.

Normally the tank is low in cars, but with a high tank and natural bypass and segment lube, I'm loosing oil into the sump while parked. So I intend to buy a boat engine oil service pump. They are cheap enough, and I only need to pump enough oil into the tank, to start up and get the scavenge pumps turning. So the spare port I put in by changing my design part way through the fab, will be handy place for the hand pump. If your reading this for a dry sump build I suggest fitting a spare port in your sumps screened area or with a local gauze, incase you have the same problem