dirty harry Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Could someone confirm ASAP if the attached photos showing corrosion of both ends of the crossmember and the battery tray are an MOT failure? I suspect the crossmember is, but not sure about the battery tray. I could do with an answer this morning if poss Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 That's just the vent cowl for the battery tray, I'd cut it off and take it back. Crossmember is a bit manky, although the ends of it aren't doing a great deal that probably will count as a failure as it's within 30cm of a body mount. Not a hard one to fix though. Ultimately both want fixing anyway, and you may want to have a good look at the rest of the truck too to see if you can stop it crumbling away. Waxoyl while the sun shines and all that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty harry Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Thanks for that - you've confirmed exactly what I thought. Would you be surprised then if I told you that an MOT station passed the vehicle last month, which along with the above mentioned corrosion, has the following faults:- Windscreen washer not functioning (jets blocked) Wipers not clearing screen on drivers side (wiper arm and spindle worn - both sides in fact) Power steering leaking from lower seal Off-side rear stop/tail light not functioning (no bulb!) Fog Lamp not functioning (not sure why it doesn't work yet) ..........not to mention the corrosion on the crossmember! Methinks I'll be going back to the dealer that sold me the Defender!! Anyone that wants an MOT testing station that will give you a dodgy certificate, let me know - I can recommend one. I've recommended them to VOSA already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Windscreen washer not functioning (jets blocked) - not needed, windscreen folds flat Wipers not clearing screen on drivers side (wiper arm and spindle worn - both sides in fact) - not needed, windscreen folds flat Power steering leaking from lower seal - Not a failue unless dangerous - oil leaking onto brakes etc. IIRC. Anyway, it could have just started. Off-side rear stop/tail light not functioning (no bulb!) - could have blown on the way out of the test centre and not been repaired? Probably not.... Fog Lamp not functioning (not sure why it doesn't work yet) - could have blown on the way out of the test centre. Suggestions in red, just being Devil's acvocate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'd take it back to the dealer and express your concerns, if they are any good they will attempt to rectify things, if bad they will tell you to fork orf and realistically you don't have much to go on with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty harry Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Suggestions in red, just being Devil's acvocate Sorry, devil's advocate or not, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. With regards to the windscreen the MOT testing rules clearly state:- "Includes all items affecting the driver's view of the road: the condition of the windscreen, the wipers and washers". Furthermore, the bulb hadn't blown in the off-side rear lamp, there was NO bulb in it!! And the fog lamp bulb is fine, I've tested it, but the lamp still doesn't work, so presumably there is an electrical fault somewhere. So the MOT tester should have failed the vehicle, no questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty harry Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'd take it back to the dealer and express your concerns, if they are any good they will attempt to rectify things, if bad they will tell you to fork orf and realistically you don't have much to go on with. I have since found out that corrosion is covered for 3 months from the date of the MOT and, if proved to be a failure, VOSA will take action against the MOT testing station. I have done what you said and left it with the dealer to come up with an appropriate solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TS888 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I bought a 110 with a 1 month old MOT that was MUCH worse than that. I could poke holes in the rear xmember with my finger, and all the brakes looked like they'd been marinating in the ocean for a year. Nudge nudge, wink wink, 20 bob's your uncle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Also playing devil's avocado - why did you buy it if it was this bad? Most of those faults are pretty obvious, and MOT failures or not I'd hope you'd notice most of them when buying a vehicle Yes the MOT is borderline, but as stated above it could very well be within the legal end of leniency. If you're unhappy with the state of the car, the fault is yours for buying it like that, not the dealer for offering it for sale unless you bought it sight-unseen and were actually lied to about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
show Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Why grass the MOT station for a borderline case,are you one of those DO GOODERS! that like to ruin things for evry one else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I think that the washers/wipers have to work if the screen is up (as presented for the test). Rear crossmember corrosion is a grey area - I have known what you have got both pass and fail on the 30cm rule. Battery tray is irrelevant (it's the seat box) as long as the battery is secure - it doesn't count as structural, so the 30cm rule doesn't apply. Fog light should work at the test - even if an aftermarket fitment. Brake lights the same - even if you've fitted a third one, such as rear screen high sight item (if it's fitted - it has to work). The 30cm rule is even a grey area as it can be interpreted as a straight line, or the distance following the metal to a stucture point, such as body mount, seat belt mount, etc. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The Inspection Manual is once again quite clear on the "Driver's view of the Road" section: http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s08000201.htm Wipers and Washers This inspection applies to All vehicles, except those · with an opening windscreen, or · with some other means of providing the driver with an adequate view. If the vehicle is a hard top then I wouldn't define it as 'opening' at all, a soft top.... maybe, but really pushing it. As Les says, the vehicle is tested 'as presented', if the screen is in a fixed position up they should be tested and should work! This sounds like an MOT tester bending the rules to suit his own agenda in all honesty: The 30cm rule is even a grey area as it can be interpreted as a straight line, or the distance following the metal to a stucture point, such as body mount, seat belt mount, etc. The Inspection Manual is pretty clear, saying just 'within 30cm', clearly meaning you draw a 30CM sphere round the point and see what it hits. In that respect, the rear crossmember is a failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Litch Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 "Why grass the MOT station for a borderline case,are you one of those DO GOODERS! that like to ruin things for evry one else..." This is a joke posting of course (isn't it?). Any MOT station that passes any vehicle that isn't fit to be on the road should have their testing license taken away. If you can't be bothered to keep your vehicle in a roadworthy condition and fix faults as they come up (I won't even mention regular maintenance to prevent them forming in the first place) then you don't deserve the right to drive a vehicle on the public highway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmgemini Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 "Why grass the MOT station for a borderline case,are you one of those DO GOODERS! that like to ruin things for evry one else..." This is a joke posting of course (isn't it?). Any MOT station that passes any vehicle that isn't fit to be on the road should have their testing license taken away. If you can't be bothered to keep your vehicle in a roadworthy condition and fix faults as they come up (I won't even mention regular maintenance to prevent them forming in the first place) then you don't deserve the right to drive a vehicle on the public highway. Too true...... Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtray Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 My Defender's high level stop lamp hasnt worked for 3 years, it passes everytime, no advisories on it. I also send vehicles to Just Mot's everyday with 3rd brake lights not working, it is never brought up as either a fail or an advisory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYCOPPER Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Why grass the MOT station for a borderline case,are you one of those DO GOODERS! that like to ruin things for evry one else... Grass ?? do you mean advise VOSA of a test station not performing there duties both legally AND morally ??? I find it incredible that you can make a comment like that to be honest, would you be impressed if a car, just issued with a new MOT crashed into you or your vehicle due to it being unroadworthy ?? Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I would place more reliance on my own pre purchase inspection than rely on the fact that a vehicle has an MoT certificate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpy1980 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Sorry if I babble but this is just my 2p worth, in my job I have to inspect & prepare and present vehicles for mot 75% of them are HGV so have to go to VOSA for test and are expected to pass first time and the first time pass rate HAS to be over 90% over the year otherwise you start getting visits from the men in white coats or worse if it doesn't improve or they find problems during the spot checks they reduce the amount of vehicles which we can run meaning drivers lose jobs and me if I fook em up Anyway I have had a truck in the w/shop for 2 days prep and as it was backing out to leave for its appointment with vosa the entire lights down oneside went down with a wiring fault even tho it had been without problem before hand then another only last week passing its test then blowing a major air pipe to the brakes just as it pulled out from the mot lane but it was fine when tested and had passed so the pass stood. I presented a paj for test myself without inspection due to lack of time and it passed without even advisory only for the front brake pads to get down to the metal the following day. The lights/washers etc cannot come into any investigation vosa do on the garage in question but the rust can upto 3 months as you said but there is the possibility that if someone was trying to pull a fast one to get an mot could it have been covered with filler/paint which has fell out? also testers are not meant to dig around only tap as far as I'm aware and they cannot remove fitted covers. If VOSA decide your test was illigitimate then it will be voided but then I guess you'll have a good case from where you bought it from. Was there a warranty? sorry again for the babble and I'm not in support of the garage just throwing out possibles I hope it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 The Inspection Manual is pretty clear, saying just 'within 30cm', clearly meaning you draw a 30CM sphere round the point and see what it hits. That's rubbish Ralph, to be honest. There's no mention of an imaginary sphere, direct line, or profile of the metal. You are merely stating your interpretation of the statement. I take more vehicles for MOT's, and take an active part in those MOT's than most people have had hot dinners and have seen/heard all the interpretations of the rules that there are in the testers manual. The MOT test - even though it's now supposed to be super-efficient, is still open to the testers opinion (brake pipe corrosion, rubber deterioration, level of corrosion, indicator 'whitening', for example). This is why no two MOT test stations are likely to fail the same vehicle on the same things. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Sorry Les That's what I was told when being trained by VOSA peep a few years ago when I was installing the computerization for Siemens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I haven't replied to this thread until now, I didn't make that statement that's been quoted above Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
show Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 (edited) DIRTY HARRY Why did you not just complain to the manager instead of getting vosa involed,or is it you have some sort of grievance with them, You must of been told they do an easy mot?.Who in there right mind would take a car for an mot with the washers not working,no bulb in the rear light and the fog light not working? Edited March 13, 2011 by western Personal insults will not be tolerated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 As far as I can tell, the garage took the LR for he MOT test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty harry Posted March 13, 2011 Author Share Posted March 13, 2011 Crikey! All I wanted to know was whether the corrosion on the xmember was an MOT failure! Didn't realise it would generate this amount of interest. Briefly, I live in Leicestershire and bought the 90 from a dealer in Huddersfield "over the phone", so I fully accepted that there may be some of the usual Defender glitches. Never had a problem with that and as this is my 3rd Landy I was prepared to do all the little jobs that are always needed. So I had not viewed the vehicle beforehand, a risk I was happy to take. However, the dealer told me that the only failure on the MOT was " no fluid in the washer bottle" and a "leaking power steering". I therefore assumed both had been fixed so as to get it through the MOT, although there was an advisory on a front wheel bearing. There was no mention on the MOT advisory about corrosion anywhere on the vehicle. Since taking delivery 5 weeks ago, amongst other jobs, I have cleared a blockage in the washers (it had been overpainted), replaced all the wipers, fitted a new bulb to the off-side rear lamp, tried to fix a power steering leak but am yet to fix the fog lamp. It was only when I came to try and fit rear mudflaps that I noticed the corrosion and realised there was no way I could fit them. I then checked the MOT documents as it seemed odd that so much corrosion had gone unmentioned and to my astonishment amongst all the paperwork from the dealer, was the original MOT Failure document listing:- no fluid in washer bottle fog lamp not working offside rear lamp not working leaking seal on power steering. But no comments about corrosion. It then dawned on me that none of the failures had been addressed and yet still a "Pass" certificate was issued on 19 January I know the guys at my local MOT station and yesterday in a quick 5 minute inspection, he uncovered more corrosion on the chassis, at the rear where the crossmember joins the chassis, and a hole the size of a golf ball near the offside coil spring (see photos below). It does not take a genius to realise these are definite MOT failures and should have been picked up at the time of the MOT and THEIR view is the vehicle is not road-worthy and I should get VOSA to carry out their check and let them decide as to where this goes next. I have, however, allowed the dealer this weekend to respond with an offer to sort it out BEFORE I get VOSA involved. Seemed only fair. So, to the idiot who reckons I am a "DO-GOODER" by reporting an MOT Testing Station for issuing dodgy certificates are, words fail me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Both of those pics are definitely an MOT fail (chassis and corrosion within 30cm of the suspension). New rear crossmember time by the looks of it. You may have a hole there, but the crossmember in general will be badly corroded internally and considerably weakened. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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