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Rod ends, heims and spherical joints.


SOA 93

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I want to replace all the joints on the steering with Rod ends, I've looked at a few suppliers and the list of types in the size required is pretty long. A Google search came up with a supplier who had some recommendations, which for off road were chromoly with ptfe liners, I was really hoping for something with grease nipples and at the moment I can only find metal to metal with grease nippples.

Anyone have any wisdom on the subject?

Cheers

Andy

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Hmmmmmmmmm

Basically these are great and can be done, BUT once the mud / sand / small amount of wear gets into them they will bang and clunk and then wear accelerates.

You can grease them as much as you like it will get in there, and then its the slippery slope next stop for them the skip, and thus it can get very expensive very quickly............

Why are you considering doing this ?....whats the application ?

I'm sure others will be along to add to the above, but its not a "Fit and forget item" :(

Nige

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Why?

Well, they are for 101 axles, partly for strength, but also because 101 TRE's are extremely expensive, not sure if standard land rover TRE's will fit. It's likely I'll be fitting 37" tyres and ram assist steering, so I'd like it all to be as strong as possible.

Quite a few people are starting to use rod ends for trailing arms with some success and most of the adjustable panhard rods I see for sale also have rod ends.

It would also make it relatively straight forward to make new HD track rods and drag links.

There's a huge difference in quality in the range of rod ends.

I was hoping dust boots, grease nipples and good quality Rod ends might last a little longer.

Are standard LR TRE's going to reliable in this situation?

All advice/thoughts gratefully received :)

Andy

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Paddocks are doing Lemforder (think thats how you spell it) TRE's that have a grease nipple, Lemforder make the genuine part ones (i think) so they are pretty good... Paddocks are doing them for about £8... :)

they also do Delphi TRE's for about £6.... seam good quality, just had some delivered. :)

don't buy Britpart ones... made in china from turds. :(

think of TRE's as service items, and replace them before they die/ sieze up/ rust up.....

m@tt. :)

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There are now available certain joints that are of a suitable standard to use for every day/competition use...

But they are frightfully expensive :rolleyes:

We have just imported a load of rebuildable chrom moly joints with ptfe liners that are adjustable.....

But cost is around £90+vat EACH.......

But they are the best. But we would use these for suspension joint and not steering. For steering we would use similair joints, but non rebuildable and ditch them at the end of there life.

If you still want to pursue this, then call me, will be pleased to help.

Jim :)

01732 463600

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Check the link below, these have been reccomended to me several time for HD use? Known as "Johnny Jionts" They will need welding, but go upto 3"..I know they are stateside but if ya running 37's and ram assist, sound like you are in the realms of Rock Crawler territory?

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/johnnyjoints.aspx#

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Good show chaps!

Freeagent: "Paddocks are doing Lemforder (think thats how you spell it) TRE's that have a grease nipple, Lemforder make the genuine part ones (i think) so they are pretty good... Paddocks are doing them for about £8..."

101 TRE's are about 9" long and have a bend in them to clear the diff pan, PA Blanchard catalogue price £124+VAT :o . Maybe the taper is standard LR? I'm going to be moving the steering arms up by 2" (relatively easy on 101 axles) so I think a straight bar should miss the diff pan.

dirtydiesel: "If you are scratch building a system you could do worse than to use 404 unimog TRE's, they are huge, they use a 24mm fine threaded shank and a large taper. and they are greasable and fully rebuildable."

Steering arms will be standard 101, other than drilled or bushed for bolting the rod ends two, Mog TRE's would be a great solution if the tapers are the same, however I think that's unlikely.

Warthog: "Check the link below, these have been reccomended to me several time for HD use? Known as "Johnny Jionts" They will need welding, but go upto 3"..I know they are stateside but if ya running 37's and ram assist, sound like you are in the realms of Rock Crawler territory?"

Specialist Leasure in the UK have these in there catalogue, but no doubt to order only, I think these are for suspension rather than steering though. Rock Crawler territory? Well maybe, its in the pursuit of strength/reliability, if I'm going to the trouble of putting these axles under a Disco, then I'm going to go the whole hog, maybe its unneccessary, but I believe in 'doing it properly, doing once'.

D90SV: There are now available certain joints that are of a suitable standard to use for every day/competition use...

Aaaahhhh! Music to my ears. :D I really do love this Forum :):) Exactly what I'm looking for you will be contacted.

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Spent a long time lookimg into joints.

The motor racing guys were not too helpful because they either don't run in dirt (circuit cars) or they replace them really often (rally cars). The best advice for running all day in mud and carp came from companies supplying joints to the mining and quarrying industry (as well as motorsport). They use PTFE lined, 3 piece rod ends as they have much closer tolerance so less room for grit and they prefer non-greasable as the grease attracts more muck. Also, the same size joint with a grease nipple will have a much lower radial load rating.

The problem with rebuildable ones is that they have a lower lateral load rating than a fully staked 3 piece joint so again you need to go bigger for the same strength. And, while you can rebuild the inners, this does nothing for the outers which will stretch even on the highest quality joints.

So, buy the best 3 piece PTFE lined you can and treat them as a consumable.

Or you can buy pretty good rod ends, PTFE lined, 2 piece that are reasonable and will just need replaced sooner.

Not that Jim's aren't lurvely!!! :D

FB

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I run quite a few on my racer, 12 off the top of my head, and agree with everything FB says. Greased ones are a waste of time and weaker. The boots hold water and dirt. I now leave mine exposed and wash properly after every event. Don't bother with stainless as they will fail before they rust in our environment.

The steering rods don't take that much load compared to wishbones... but... it is a difficult decision to go for cheap joints on your steering unless you are able to calculate the anticipated loads. Rod ends are easier in this aspect because they don't give load ratings and most people would go with one that 'looks up to the job'.

Obviously when racing you expect to wear things out but I do find the expense on rod ends hard to swallow. Unless you need the articulation I would go for big ball joints and get new tapers reamed. Simmonites used David Brown ones on their racers, £15 each, and they last a fair while before you get play and I have only heard of one breakage. I can give you a part number if you need it.

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My suggestion - dont do it - play becomes entertaining very quickly

keep with TREs

my tyres are only 18" wide and I have full hydro so my experience might be a little warped :unsure:

I do have teflon super groovey mega monster sphericals on the hydro but the business end is still TREs

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I use jony joints on the rear just for long life and the amount af travel but they are harder than as stock rubber mount there is also these which are adjustable http://www.rubiconexpress.com/dynamic/main...sp?folderid=788

and for steering we have used these

http://bulletproofsteering.com/main.html

but in the uk if it has any road use at all you will need something that can not get the salt in off the road in winter it just buggers them all up

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  • 1 month later...

I have just bought some spares from currie enterprises, very reasonable prices but the shipping charge is astronomical. Very easy to deal with via e-mail though.

I have a metal to metal ball joint on my panhard rod, its done a couple of challenges and is knackered, (Scorpion). Apparently, greasing them makes no difference.

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I have used rose jouint for couple of years right now and i don't agree with any of the statements about they are wear out very fast greasbles aren't weaker etc. I have used and abused them for some time and non of them is ready for the bin.

I the time i was looking for joints only wanted the greasble ones. I never have any bad feelings about them. They have done more then 50000 without any problem.

But it's a good joint made out of chroom moly steel. Not a cheap crappy one. The only thing you have to do is grease them. When you are not willing to grease them don't even start because then the above story's wil become thrue.

Btw i have now rebuildble ones myself just as a tryout and they are the strongest on the planet. Buying them is expensiv 110 US but rebuiding is very cheap 15-20 dollars and fully adjustble as wel.

What Gigglepin is offering is again a very good and wel made joint but they cost some money. They wil last longer as wel much longer as wel.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/P...ints/index.html you can check this link as wel then you know where we are talking about.

there are several good joints for sale but they are al costing money

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I have just bought some spares from currie enterprises, very reasonable prices but the shipping charge is astronomical. Very easy to deal with via e-mail though.

I have a metal to metal ball joint on my panhard rod, its done a couple of challenges and is knackered, (Scorpion). Apparently, greasing them makes no difference.

Scrap people are using a very poor quality joint,no greasing wil change that

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I have used rose jouint for couple of years right now and i don't agree with any of the statements about they are wear out very fast greasbles aren't weaker etc. I have used and abused them for some time and non of them is ready for the bin.

I the time i was looking for joints only wanted the greasble ones. I never have any bad feelings about them. They have done more then 50000 without any problem.

But it's a good joint made out of chroom moly steel. Not a cheap crappy one. The only thing you have to do is grease them. When you are not willing to grease them don't even start because then the above story's wil become thrue.

Btw i have now rebuildble ones myself just as a tryout and they are the strongest on the planet. Buying them is expensiv 110 US but rebuiding is very cheap 15-20 dollars and fully adjustble as wel.

What Gigglepin is offering is again a very good and wel made joint but they cost some money. They wil last longer as wel much longer as wel.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/P...ints/index.html you can check this link as wel then you know where we are talking about.

there are several good joints for sale but they are al costing money

If greasables are not weaker then why do the manufacturers quote lower ultimate radial loads for ones with grease nipples? And I am talking about quality ones.

FB

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If greasables are not weaker then why do the manufacturers quote lower ultimate radial loads for ones with grease nipples? And I am talking about quality ones.

FB

I am using quality ones used in rally and formula sport and no lower ratings when grease nipple used.

And the one what are review on pirate are greasble and you can rebuild them and they are the strongest to buy right now.

I have no idea where or what you are using

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I am using quality ones used in rally and formula sport and no lower ratings when grease nipple used.

And the one what are review on pirate are greasble and you can rebuild them and they are the strongest to buy right now.

I have no idea where or what you are using

"Load ratings apply only to rod ends without grease fittings. For load ratings with fittings, please consult our engineering department"

The above from the Aurora catalogue (not a cheap poor quality company)

"Rod end load ratings based on no lubrication fitting. For load ratings of rod ends with lubricator, please contact FK engineering department"

FK catalogue.

If you drill a hole through it it cannot be as strong.

Big rebuildables as on PIrate (Evolution et al) are strong because they are enormous.

FB

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"Load ratings apply only to rod ends without grease fittings. For load ratings with fittings, please consult our engineering department"

The above from the Aurora catalogue (not a cheap poor quality company)

"Rod end load ratings based on no lubrication fitting. For load ratings of rod ends with lubricator, please contact FK engineering department"

FK catalogue.

If you drill a hole through it it cannot be as strong.

Big rebuildables as on PIrate (Evolution et al) are strong because they are enormous.

FB

I have used RODOBAL motor sports joints after AURORA couldn't help me with my specific request. BTW i had this name given my a friendly sales man from AURORA because he new these people had a special made one. The one i should look for,was greaseble as i wanted.

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