v8bertha Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Me again! with another long, rambling explanation of a problem! Regular readers of this forum will remember that christmas 2009 saw the gearbox in my Camel freeby go into meltdown mode... Previous thread. At the time I did a bit of reading and found that the PG1 gearbox was used in all sorts of cars. A friend of a friend was breaking a 1.8 petrol Freelander at the time so I had the gearbox and installed it in the Camel together with a new clutch. Pretty much straight away I had my suspicions that the gearbox must be different because at 70mph the car was doing over 3000rpm. But the car was usable so I lived with it. Over the past week or so the car has been harder and harder to get into gear, and when sat at traffic lights in 1st with the clutch down, you can feel it trying to drive forwards. It got so bad that I couldn't get the car in gear with the engine running. Knowing that the hydraulics are a known weak point on these cars I changed that and the slave bracket on the gearbox that tends to snap. But unfortunately it's made no difference. I still can't select a gear whilst stationery and have to match engine revs to speed to change gears whilst driving. Now, those of you who are true geeks will now be shaking your heads woefully and tutting because the Camel freelander came with the 2lt L series diesel, not the 1.8 petrol. The gearboxes are dimensionally the same and are interchangable. Now I think I know the answer to my question, but I don't know for sure... Is the diesel gearbox "uprated" in any way? Are the rations the same? Is the premature demise of the current gearbox to be expected seeing as it came from a 1.8 petrol? Or do you thing that my gear selection problems are related to something else altogether? Cheers chaps Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisW70 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 This should help hopefully - different ratios for petrol and diesel versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisW70 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 Although the description of the fault sounds more like clutch hydraulics related - the ratios just mean the box has had to work harder to give you the speed you want, probably would have a detrimental effect on your mpg as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted March 20, 2011 Author Share Posted March 20, 2011 Ahhh ha! I knew it! Thanks Chris I'm now left wondering if maybe the diesel version of the box had uprated componants to cope with the extra grunt over what the petrol engine produced? I've already replaced the hydraulics and it feels exactly the same (which means the old unit was probably ok!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisW70 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I had the clutch done in my Rover last month, the diesel clutch is a heavy duty version compared to the petrol clutch so I would imagine that it follows that the box is more 'heavy duty' than the petrol counterpart. Isn't it more low down torque on a diesel compared to a petrol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Sargent Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Because it's trying to move forward with the clutch depresssed, this shows that the clutch is not working correctly and probably suggest there's a hydraulic leak somewhere, or the system needs bleeding. Although the gearbox doesn't have the right ratios and might not have uprated parts, I can't seen that a broken gearbox could have these symptoms either way... so I very inclined to think the clutch has a fault somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Isn't it more low down torque on a diesel compared to a petrol? That's kinda what I was thinking and is now why I'm wondering if the diesel box maybe has stronger components. Anybody know for sure? Anybody know if the clutch fork is a weak point like it is on the R380 gearboxes? I'm assuming the release bearing is ok as I haven't heard any nasty noises. I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and get the box out to see if there is anything obviously wrong with the clutch side of things. grumble grumble grumble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 21, 2011 Share Posted March 21, 2011 Clutch release bearing carrier melting might do it, that's how mine went on the 1.8 (because the clutch actuation rod was not moving freely in the side of the gearbox, so it never fully released it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Because it's trying to move forward with the clutch depresssed, this shows that the clutch is not working correctly and probably suggest there's a hydraulic leak somewhere Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you. But I've replaced the hydraulics with a new part and the symptoms are the same. The hydraulics are supposedly maintenance free and are supplied as a sealed unit (master, slave and connecting pipework, pre filled with fluid). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted March 21, 2011 Author Share Posted March 21, 2011 Clutch release bearing carrier melting might do it, that's how mine went on the 1.8 (because the clutch actuation rod was not moving freely in the side of the gearbox, so it never fully released it). now that sounds interesting... did you get any knackered bearing noises? I haven't heard mine making any, but sounds cheaper than replacing a gearbox!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Not until it proper disintegrated and smoke came out of the gearbox You could try cleaning & lubing the clutch release arm where it goes into the box, mine was half-seized 'cos it had been stood for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonT Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 "You could try cleaning & lubing the clutch release arm where it goes into the box, mine was half-seized" This is a common problem with this 'box on the MG-F - Mike Satur does a replacement release arm which has been drilled and fitted with a grease nipple so that lubrication is possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted March 23, 2011 Author Share Posted March 23, 2011 "You could try cleaning & lubing the clutch release arm where it goes into the box, mine was half-seized" This is a common problem with this 'box on the MG-F - Mike Satur does a replacement release arm which has been drilled and fitted with a grease nipple so that lubrication is possible Thats an interesting idea... if that turns out to be the problem I may look at doing something similar. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco_Mikey Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 If you need a box, i am breaking an L-series over the next few days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blippie Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 If you need a box, i am breaking an L-series over the next few days It sounds like Dan is doing good enough job at breaking the one he's got... ;-) Cheers Blip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blippie Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 If you need a box, i am breaking an L-series over the next few days It sounds like Dan is doing good enough job at breaking the one he's got... ;-) Cheers Blip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 If you need a box, i am breaking an L-series over the next few days D'oh! I just bough one off ebay today... mind you, I think I got a bit of a bargain... £60! It sounds like Dan is doing good enough job at breaking the one he's got... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v8bertha Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Quick update on this thread... I managed to get the gearbox off over the long weekend. The first thing I noticed was that 2 of the clutch cover fingers were slightly more pushed in than the others. I marked them up with a pencil and removed the clutch. On the cover plate there was obvious blue-ing that lined up perfectly with the two fingers I marked up. So I think I have found the problem, the clutch wasn't disengaging properly because of the fingers and it was constantly biting, which explains all the problems perfectly. There was nothing wrong with the clutch fork mechanism. Unfortunately its over a year since I fitted the clutch, so its not under warranty any more, but a new one is winging its way to me so I should be mobile again by THE wedding... finger crossed, then I can escape!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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