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MegaSquirt / MicroSquirt/ MegaJolt and V1, V2, V3 and MS-II


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Very strange... where does your dizzy get its vac from then? :huh:

On a carb engine the nipple for the dizzy is just below the flutterby when the throttle is closed, depending on the throtlle opening it can be above or below the butterfly.

To get a proper vacuum you have to tap well below the butterfly, usually in the manifold or the adaptor between the carb & manifold.

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Cheers Fridge,

So the system that is being expertly constructed :wub::wub: for me, will allow me to use the coil packs off the 4.6 and option 2 of the above, so in theory, I only need to have a rough guess at the timing to get the motor running then fine tune?

There are advantges to using EDIS. mainone being that if MS goes tits up, you still have ignition.

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What is the current track record of reliability with megasquirt - anybody know?

Depends who builds / installs it. :D

Theres a pretty wide userbase, and its used on all kinds of vehicles from race cars to slow landrovers.

If you check out the forums you will get some idea.

remember this isnt a commercial product as such, its open hardware & software, which folk are working on as part time job / hobby, but then it's way way cheaper than commercial alternatives such as Emerald.

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Ignoring badly done installs I know of one that failed and that was Ash's, a V1 proto board built by Dave H for bench testing - he used a lower-wattage resistor than stock in the tach circuit (because he had it lying round) which lasted through two vehicles before burning out. I soldered in the correct part and it's now going strong in a Hilux V8.

A few people killed V2 and V1 driver circuits using low-impedance injectors, PWM and no flyback but the V3 has the flyback circuit in as standard now IIRC.

They have gone to great leangths to make it numpty-proof, polyfuses and an MOV on the board, input stages that will withstand mains voltage for a week (yes this was a test!) etc.

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Cheers Fridge,

So the system that is being expertly constructed :wub::wub: for me, will allow me to use the coil packs off the 4.6 and option 2 of the above, so in theory, I only need to have a rough guess at the timing to get the motor running then fine tune?

You can get away with it with EDIS too. Mine's a couple of degrees out (I'll sort it when I get the engine back together, but was running it like that for months) - I just moved the ignition maps up two degrees to compensate :) Obviously if the Megasquirt packs up that means I'm running at 8deg advance not 10deg, but that's no big deal - in fact you could use this to tweak your 'limp home' advance if you wanted.

Only real issue is the potential for confusion with the offset maps.

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  • 1 month later...
Jon - I think people usually build extra drivers onto a bit of breadboard and mount that either in-case or externally in a box, the V3 proto area makes life easier. After all, it is DIY EFI so designed for modding :D

Hoss - you should consider using a MS in spark-only and later upgrade to full EFi - I pick up complete inlet manifolds with injectors, loom, everything except air flow meter and ECU ('cos those are the bits that die) for around £10 a throw at Sodbury. All you need after that is a high pressure fuel pump and you're away.

FridgeFreezer - just getting onto LR4x4.com. I'm considering giving my petrol SIIa an engine upgrade to either 2.5L or Automotive's 2.8L coupled with a MegaSquirt setup. The thing that keeps me from going ahead is the lack of info on proper inlet manifolds for (ideally) port injection. I've seen setups using Suzuki GSX600R rails but was wondering whether you know of other options... cheers

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I've heard a rumour that there's a BMW inlet manifold that will fit, I can't back that up with facts though.

Talk to Bill Shurvinton 07788 432735 he has been threatening to do this to a LR 4-pot for ages.

There are options:

- Make an adapter plate to take another 4-pot EFI inlet from a car

- Drill your inlet & araldite some injector bungs in (this is actually common practice and it does work)

- Find a car that changed from carbs to single-point injection via a bolt-on throttle body and use that (EG a mini perhaps?) in place of your carb.

The key is pick an engine with similar HP (NOT engine size) as this determines injector sizes, you may well get away with the SPI from a modern 1.6 vehicle as they probably have as much power as the old 4-pot.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm planning out a conversion to MS for my 4-cyl 2.2L but am stuck at the inlet manifold (the stock one will have to go). My ideal configuration is a port injection system (4 injectors) with a single throttle body (e.g. Weber).

There's a lot of talk on the forum on MS for V8 engines but nothing for the 4-cyl ones. Any idea what inlet manifold could work or do I have to go fully custom? One recent idea I had was to modify an inlet manifold of a diesel as it appears a lot more streamlined than the stock petrol one. Another option I've read about is to use a complete setup from a 600/750cc fuel injected bike with individual throttle bodies which would mean I have to fabricate an adapter from the head to the injection setup.

any ideas most welcome...

cheers

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I'm planning out a conversion to MS for my 4-cyl 2.2L but am stuck at the inlet manifold (the stock one will have to go). My ideal configuration is a port injection system (4 injectors) with a single throttle body (e.g. Weber).

There's a lot of talk on the forum on MS for V8 engines but nothing for the 4-cyl ones. Any idea what inlet manifold could work or do I have to go fully custom? One recent idea I had was to modify an inlet manifold of a diesel as it appears a lot more streamlined than the stock petrol one. Another option I've read about is to use a complete setup from a 600/750cc fuel injected bike with individual throttle bodies which would mean I have to fabricate an adapter from the head to the injection setup.

any ideas most welcome...

cheers

Guys

apologies for the double post... was quite late when I posted this yesterday so please just ignore it (eventough I don't really have a solution yet) ... wasn't intended

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The end result you need is

- Some injectors capable of delivering enough fuel, squirting into the inlet tract somewhere

- A throttle butterfly capable of controlling the airflow

Quite how you arrive at this is open to huge interpretation - a manifold off a car, bike throttle bodies, SPI/TBI from a car bolted in place of the carb, whatever! Find something you can make fit and make it fit :P write some measurements on a bit of paper and wander the scrapyards with a tape measure and an open mind. eBay is another good source of bits and it saves wandering round scrapyards ;)

It's possible to drill the inlet manifold & araldite in injector bungs (available from tuning places - not halfords), you can buy fuel rails and all the hardware just search the MS forums or have an ask. I've heard of inlet manifold adapter plates machined from plastic chopping boards so it's not necessarily an expensive process ;)

You can use your old carb as a throttle, all you need is the butterfly, or get a scrap one and machine out all the bits that don't need to be in the way.

With the ms-extra code you don't need a throttle position sensor so that makes life even easier (use MAPdot instead of TPSdot for acceleration enrichment).

A bit of thought and a dremel and you'll get there. If you haven't spoken to Bill Shurvinton, give him a call/mail as he has come up with all sorts of ideas about how to do this.

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  • 1 month later...

A random tech post since I just knocked this up I thought others might find it useful, it's the wiring connections for a V3 ECU to Rover V8 wiring colours.

Points to note:

  • Table Switch input is on "Spare 1"
  • Coil A uses "Spare 2"
  • Coil B uses "Spare 3"
  • Coil C uses "Spare 4"
  • Coil D uses the on-board IGBT output "IGN"
  • Coil wiring colours are standard Ford EDIS-8 coil pack colours
  • TACH input can be coil, hall or VR sensor, or EDIS PIP depending on how you set the ECU up.
  • Note the top row is not all GND on V3, but pins 3,4,5,6 are Spare 1-4 respectively. As standard they are not connected to anything internally. In this case I have used them as described above, but other ECU's may differ. V1 & 2 used the whole top row as GND.
  • Rover use a different colour for each injector, to save buying 8 reels of wire I use one colour for Bank A and one for Bank B

DB37_4xIGBTs.jpg

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Presumably that simplifies things significantly as you don't need to find/buy/import an EDIS8 controller, though if MS dies, you've not got any limp-home capability.

do you just use 2 4cylinder coil packs off any old EDIS-running ford in the scrappy?

I have mine with EDIS, for that reason. It also IMO takes some electrical load away from MS, which is already busy pumping current to injectors.

EDIS8 is easy enough to find on US ebay. I payed about $20 with all connectors.

Yes, from Mondeo/Escort/Orion/Focus....

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I have mine with EDIS, for that reason. It also IMO takes some electrical load away from MS, which is already busy pumping current to injectors.

EDIS8 is easy enough to find on US ebay. I payed about $20 with all connectors.

Yes, from Mondeo/Escort/Orion/Focus....

Although if Megasquirt is running your fuelling it'll be rather academic whether you've still got a spark if it dies... ;)

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Yes it runs 4x coils (so 8cyl wasted spark) direct with just a VR sensor and a toothed wheel on the crank. In theory yes it leaves you open to breakdown but it's not made by Lucas :rolleyes: the V3 is designed to be muppet-proof, Bruce tortured the prototypes for weeks to try to break them by connecting VR inputs to the mains, short-circuiting every output etc. and it's all protected & current-limited.

Electrical load isn't really an issue as you add extra coil driver chips (VB921 IGBT's) that are internally current-limited to ~7.5A - one for each extra coil (there is one chip built in on V3's). As long as you make sure there are enough ground wires on the connector to carry the current nothing in the ECU is taking any extra load. The injectors are driven by a separate circuit, and that doesn't work hard on a V8 as it is designed to drive up to twelve low-impedance injectors. I think Charlie Broomfield beefed up the drivers for his Merlin but that used 24 injectors :blink:

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  • 2 years later...

Since I had the bits to hand I thought I'd post a piccy to illustrate the difference between the full-blown MegaSquirt ECU and MegaJolt. Both units in the pictuires will drive EDIS modules, the MegaSquirt will also control all your fuelling.

MS_vs_MJ_front.JPG

Inside, believe it or not the small chip on the MJ is the same thing as the big chip in the MS, just with less input & output legs to use:

MS_vs_MJ_pcb1.JPG

The shine on the MS board is conformal coating to protect against moisture & condensation.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all,

greetings from Sweden.

I've been following this thread with great interest, but in the end decided to go Megajolt instead of Megasquirt on a RR 3.9. As part of prepping the engine for Megajolt, I've cut down an old dizzy, see pic. The dizzy axle originally runs in two brass bearings (top & bottom). Cutting it down as far as I did, the axle felt a bit loose in only the bottom bearing, so I removed the top bearing from the cut-away part and pressed it down next to the other one. And I drilled an extra oil hole in the housing, as the original one is now blanked off by the extra bearing (that extra hole was drilled after taking the picture). Is this what others have been doing as well, or should I trim down another dizzy further up in order to retain the top bearing in its original place ? I am also a bit concerned about not having the axle fixed in the top anymore, but is it so that it just rests in the oil pump slot, and all is well ? Finally, I plan to seal it off with 3/8 brass plug, as they seem to fit the inner diameter of the housing, but there are perhaps better solutions out there ?

post-14510-1237129400_thumb.jpg

/Peter

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