Power steering conversion

[ejparrott]

also on a 200TDI 88" with an overdrive, higher geared diffs, parabolics, loads of soundproofing (PARDON!!!) and comfy seats (when you arrive at your destination!)

Thats what I've got, and I dont find the need for it, nor does the wife, and she's only a little bit, and to date, I've had no issues with pushing trailers with manual steering, although, I must admit to having the bus wheel and not a little metro wheel.

Personally, I'd save the pennies for more important spares, like the wheels cylinders I've just discovered I havent a spare of!

[tuko]

In Last months issue of LRM, there was an article on a LR restoration firm in Germany that has done a fair share of PS conversions to series vehicles. They are www-landy-point.de

While searching around there site I found these images of their mounting point for the steering box.

I found that it was interesting that they didn't take the approach that many have suggested here (bolts above/under frame rail or above/through the frame rail) but rather they welded on very hefty plate to the side of the frame rail and bolted the steering box to it. I wonder how sturdy this approach would be and seeing that it's done in Germany, how does it fair at the motor vehicle inspections?

Todd.

[Bowie69]

That's some serious thickness of plate there, Nige would be proud!

It it less work too, no tubing of the chassis required, if they are doing a lot, then it must work nicely.

[FridgeFreezer]

I don't think that really is less work, looks like a lot of heavy plate & welding compared to 4 tubes. The usual reason for doing it the tube way is that's how LR do it so it's tried and tested.

[Daan]

Which steering box is that using? if they use m10 bolts, it would need ideally 15 mm plate to get enough thread engagement for me to feel comfortable with the loads it is seeing. And welding 15 mm plate to 2 mm plate is not good in my very humble opinion.

Daan

[FridgeFreezer]

I thought PAS box bolts were M12 but you've got me wondering now.

I never like the look of stuff in single-shear sort of arrangements anyway, just seems wrong when you've got a nice big box to bolt all the way through.

[CJRH]

Looking at the photo have they added an L shape plate to the top of the chassis rail extending over the front cross member and then welded the think plate to that? I can see the major advantage of this method is not having to notch out or move the front cross member.

[Gremlin]

That plate is that thick cause they treaded the plate, the PS bolts tread into the plate! Not nice if you strip a tread! I do prefer the nut and bolt approach.

G

[Snagger]

That plate is that thick cause they treaded the plate, the PS bolts tread into the plate! Not nice if you strip a tread! I do prefer the nut and bolt approach.

G

Me too, and the plate would have to be very thick to have as much thread engagement as a nut (the same thickness as the nut, obviously). Also not so good if you have to cut the bolts off in the future if they become seized - at least with the tubular arrangement the cut bolt can then be withdrawn.

[bill van snorkle]

I'm not sure what you gain by mounting it on the outside - you still have to tube the chassis for the bolts to go through so you'll still end up cutting the front x-member about, but you may not be able to just stick all standard LR bits on as the column/shaft will be going to a different-ish place.

Fridge,Do you recall the post I put up here a couple of years back with detailed photos of how I mounted a 60 series LandCruiser Power steering box to the outside that didn't involve cuttig, drilling or welding to the chassis. And modifying the series steering box into a column, so as not to require the sourcing of a Defender one? As far as I can tell, the photos have disappeared into cyberspace, but if you do recall that post how do you explain your comments above?

It just isn't that difficult to do. I don't know why people continue to unneccesarily butcher chassis rails and crossmembers.

What's that old adage about leading a horse to water?

Bill.

[RobotMan]

I remember it well Bill. Very nice job.

[FridgeFreezer]

Bill, I do indeed remember it and I remember your reasoning behind it... and I'm certainly not (quite) enough of an idiot to argue with your engineering however, I would give my reasons for doing it the "genuine LR style" way rather than your way;

- It's how LR do it, and they have put more R&D into it than any of us have.

- Using completely off-the-shelf defender bits in standard places makes for an easy life parts wise & at inspection time.

- Using extra plates adds weight & takes up space, not a major factor but it does seem less elegant.

- I don't think I had seen your way when I did mine

[bill van snorkle]

Bill, I do indeed remember it and I remember your reasoning behind it... and I'm certainly not (quite) enough of an idiot to argue with your engineering however, I would give my reasons for doing it the "genuine LR style" way rather than your way;

- It's how LR do it, and they have put more R&D into it than any of us have.

- Using completely off-the-shelf defender bits in standard places makes for an easy life parts wise & at inspection time.

- Using extra plates adds weight & takes up space, not a major factor but it does seem less elegant.

- I don't think I had seen your way when I did mine

Thanks for the reply Fridge.My reasoning behind doing the conversion this way was aside from relative ease of fabrication that doesn't require the possesion of a welder, but also to eliminate factors such as bodgy welding to half rusted out 35 to 60 year old chassis when presenting the vehicle for engineering inspection.

Drilling large enough holes for crush tubes squarely into the chassis rail in the same vicinity as the front crossmember is a bit awkward at best and unnecessary, and not all, but some of the welding I've seen on various powersteering threads would give most engineering inspectors heart failure.For the information of those with limited or no workshop facilities, I can prepare the mounting plate with my 5" angle grinder and 1/2" electric drill on my veranda, and fit the steering box to the vehicle on the side of the road if necessary without disturbing the standard steering. That way, and with proper planning the conversion can be done piecemeal, without the need to take the vehicle out of service for any more than an hour or 2 at a time.Actually, the last time I got engineering approval on a conversion,which included both power steering and coil springs, the engineer expressed surprise when i informed him that Landrover chassis were made from such thin steel.After studying my system and noting how it spreads the loadings over a larger area, he said that he would no longer entertain weld on conversions.

Bill.

[Jon White]

I can confirm that the bolts on a standard 3, 4 or 6 bolt box are M12's 10.9 grade as I've had to helicoil one on mine due to a damaged thread.

Jon

[greenstream]

Hi Bill

I ave not seen you tread about powersteering, but I would love it if you could try and describe how you fitted the 60 series steeringbox to the chassis.

Thanks

Morten

[Bowie69]

Another link on series PAS, using Yota parts : http://www.seriestrek.com/steering.html

[bill van snorkle]

Hi Bill

I ave not seen you tread about powersteering, but I would love it if you could try and describe how you fitted the 60 series steeringbox to the chassis.

Thanks

Morten

Hi Morten. I'm afraid my computer crashed a couple of years back and I lost all my photo collection,The nearest vehicle to me that I have converted is around 300km away, but I'll try to describe as best I can.

I basically 'clamp' the steering box mounting plate to the chassis with bolts,nuts and crush tubes above and below the chassis box section.

I first bolt the Toyota steering box with 4 counter sunk Unbrako (Allen key head)bolts and nylock nuts to a 13mm thick steel plate, cut to the same profile as the chassis rail, but 2" deeper.The plate is around 7" wide to enable it to be clamped to the chassis rail with 4 x 1/2"x 4 1/2" bolts and nuts with crush tubes and clamping brackets.The plate is drilled so that the clamping bolts fit above and below the chassis box section,2 bolts behind of and 2 bolts in front of the front crossmember.I make the clamping brackets for the inside wall of the chassis from pieces of 2"x1"x1/4" steel channel.The 4 holes in the mounting plate that attach the Toyota box are counter sunk so that the bolt heads sit flush with the inner surface of the plate,allowing it to sit flat against the side of the chassis.

Hope that is not too confusing.

The steering column modification, which is also difficult to describe is probably more useful to us in Australia where Defender columns are a bit harder to find, but I could describe it in another post if required.

Bill.

[greenstream]

Thanks Bill

I was thinking that it might be the way you solved it.

What are the crushtubes for ? I belive you need to clam around the frame hence not needing the tubes. Unless you use them to isolate the bolts from the frame ?

Regarding the steeringcolum then a have acces to either models here in Denmark.

Cheers and thanks for the HiJack

Morten

[bill van snorkle]

Thanks Bill

I was thinking that it might be the way you solved it.

What are the crushtubes for ? I belive you need to clam around the frame hence not needing the tubes. Unless you use them to isolate the bolts from the frame ?

Regarding the steeringcolum then a have acces to either models here in Denmark.

Cheers and thanks for the HiJack

Morten

The series chassis are nominally 3" wide, plus weld beads. I cut the crush tubes to around

2 15/16'' to provide sufficient clamping force without squashing the box section beyond its yield point.

Bill.

[FridgeFreezer]

Just to add one to my reasons for tubing & welding:

- Have good welder & 2 coded welders helping with the build

I agree most LR owners with a hobby-mig shouldn't be allowed near anything critical, but then again they'd probably use some M8 studding and bits of old filing cabinet for the BVS method

[ejparrott]

Another link on series PAS, using Yota parts : http://www.seriestrek.com/steering.html

I've seen this conversion process before, and its similar to the infamous scout conversion on youtube....one for the SVA gurus though....is it a legal method in the UK? I was under the impression that modyfing the Series steering shaft in this manner wasn't legal in the UK?

[bill van snorkle]

I've seen this conversion process before, and its similar to the infamous scout conversion on youtube....one for the SVA gurus though....is it a legal method in the UK? I was under the impression that modyfing the Series steering shaft in this manner wasn't legal in the UK?

All welding to the steering colums shaft AFAIK is illegal over here. But cutting the worm gear off, filing two flats on the shaft and plugging it into the the female lower half of an old RangeRover column shaft is ok, and once again remove the bodgy welder from the equation.

Bill.

[FridgeFreezer]

Nothing illegal about any welding in the UK - the MOT phrase is "badly welded repairs" are not allowed.

[tuko]

the MOT phrase is "badly welded repairs" are not allowed.

And who is it that determines that ??

[greenstream]

Thanks Bill.

Morten