nigelr32 Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Hi all, A friend was telling me that the newest Land Rover Defenders have been given the accolade of worst 4x4 money can buy?? Having just bought a Puma 90, I'm a little concerned!! Has anyone else heard this rumour, or is my mate just jealous?? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 Accolade by whom? Like me you own one, how have you found it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelr32 Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 I think it's great! It does a comfortable 70 mph on the motorway, and doesn't bang and crash over bumps. I admit, it probably doesn't have the build quality of the older models, but it's good on fuel and it's new. I'm looking forward to having a decent heater next winter!! Apparently he saw some ratings on Google that put the Puma at the top of the list for unreliability and poor build quality?? Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 From what I've seen, the engine is more powerful, gearbox better ratios, interior far better equipped (even if I do prefer the older layout), air conditioning is much improved. However you will still bang your elbow on the glass, and the cabin will probably start leaking rain sooner rather than later! On the downside, the chassis steel will undoubtably be thinner and the same goes for the alloy body panels, though this was the case for the Td5s and even late Tdis as well. Cost cutting measures, when the accountants started getting involved in the process. I'd still have one over any other 4x4, though not in one of those bling stylings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 A Puma is the only thing that would tempt me from my 200tdi, basically for the reasons Retroanaconda listed above and especially so with a Richards galv chassis for longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 A Puma is the only thing that would tempt me from my 200tdi, basically for the reasons Retroanaconda listed above and especially so with a Richards galv chassis for longevity. How difficult would it be to retrofit one to a tdi? DO they still use the LT230 transferbox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNissanPrairie Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I did consider a Puma engine, 6spd box and transfer box before buying my Defender 200tdi engine-a few on Ebay but its the loom and electronics that put me off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I did consider a Puma engine, 6spd box and transfer box before buying my Defender 200tdi engine-a few on Ebay but its the loom and electronics that put me off. That wouldn't bother me too much, I think ECU technology is robust enough now to be a good option. I would be more worried about the finicky nature of the injectors and the DMF that modern diesels seem to be cursed with. The reason I ask is I've just fitted a tdi200 into my series pickup and have come to the conclusion that it is too rough for a station wagon (next project). So I'm investigating other options - ideally a smooth diesel that can mate with a short nose R380, but the puma option is something I want to explore as well. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I'd look at a Td5 first, as it's been done plenty and the ECUs are known quantities these days. But a Puma engined 200Tdi-era station wagon would be nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I wonder about fitting the Puma gearbox behind an earlier engine either td5 or a tdi... wonder how they would fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 I think the op might be refering to a survey of vehicle reliability, published by a used car warranty provider, Warranty holdings I think. This is a regular survey based on real data. Land Rover in general come last (as usual I think) as the vehicle you're most likely to break down in. I don't know how it rates individual models. Data will probably be based on vehicles under 5 years old. The results should come as no suprise to anyone here. A Google will probably find you the whole survey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 They should do a survey of which vehicles are easiest to repair :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Wilson Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 It's probably this he's talking about: LINKY But if you look at the 10 worst models, chart, the Puma isn't there. It's the current Range Rover apparently letting the side down. [EDIT] Actually....they don't have a reliability index for the Defender. Is that because it was off the scale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 It's probably this he's talking about: LINKY But if you look at the 10 worst models, chart, the Puma isn't there. It's the current Range Rover apparently letting the side down. [EDIT] Actually....they don't have a reliability index for the Defender. Is that because it was off the scale? Yeah, that's the one. I've been in the motor trade for over 30 years and it still amazes me how carp most vehicles are. I suppose I see things from a different perspective as I have to fix them, but why anyone buys a new car is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bm52 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 i bought a 3 month old Puma. Now 15 months old. No problems at all except a rear window replaced under warranty. it now done 10k. i am delighted with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimRover Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I did consider a Puma engine, 6spd box and transfer box before buying my Defender 200tdi engine-a few on Ebay but its the loom and electronics that put me off. You may need to allow a new bonnet in your budget as they say the bulge is to accomodate the taller engine, but not sure how true that is. Still, a nice idea!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullyjohn Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Just for background info the Puma is basically the same engine that goes into Transits and is generally pretty durable. I am not sure which ones are compatible - but one should be - if you can source one from a chassis cab/ pick up Transit - I think it doesn't have a DMF.. Has anyone looked into this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 You may need to allow a new bonnet in your budget as they say the bulge is to accomodate the taller engine, but not sure how true that is. Still, a nice idea!! I read somewhere that the bulge isn't to fit the engine in, but to give a suitable gap between engine and panel for a pedestrian to have a slightly 'softened' hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerboy_y2k Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I read somewhere that the bulge isn't to fit the engine in, but to give a suitable gap between engine and panel for a pedestrian to have a slightly 'softened' hit. No its for the engine, the bonnet had to be redesigned for the td5 as that was taller than a tdi and touched the strengthening ribs, the tdci is taller still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 The engine is taller so it needs a taller bonnet to give enough gap between the engine and bonnet it's, I believe, an EU regulation. See AULRO here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1269244-post13.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYCOPPER Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 The engine is taller so it needs a taller bonnet to give enough gap between the engine and bonnet it's, I believe, an EU regulation. See AULRO here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1269244-post13.html Not wishing to start something but if ive read your link correctly then the information in it is of a purely personal opinion and i too believe the true reason is due to the puma engine being taller and not to give a pedestrian a landing area. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Not wishing to start something but if ive read your link correctly then the information in it is of a purely personal opinion and i too believe the true reason is due to the puma engine being taller and not to give a pedestrian a landing area. Paul SO it's out for a series retrofit, then? Nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Not wishing to start something but if ive read your link correctly then the information in it is of a purely personal opinion and i too believe the true reason is due to the puma engine being taller and not to give a pedestrian a landing area. Paul I know what you're saying Paul, its a combination of what we are both saying, the bonnet may need to higher to clear the engine but it needs to be higher again to give enough space between the hard engine components and the 'soft' bonnet. Last nights effort was only a quick search on my phone. Still looking for the article I read before... Its also part of the reason that the 2007 mini had the height of the bonnet and front structure raised. I will keep looking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 How difficult would it be to retrofit one to a tdi? DO they still use the LT230 transferbox? This is something I am considering. It appears the transit has a seperate ECU for the engine, but whether or not this can be coaxed to work on it's own is a bit unclear. Having tried this 2.4 DUratorq in the transit I think it would make a lovely engine if we could work out how to make it run, they sell for about 700-1000 pounds on ebay and make a lot of sense IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYCOPPER Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 SO it's out for a series retrofit, then? Nevermind. Not if you cut a hole in the bonnet and have a vinyl wheel cover only over the hole lol, should be soft enough to give and will give the room for clearence !!! Paul (im joking of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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